Streamlining the Negatraits

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plasmoid
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Streamlining the Negatraits

Post by plasmoid »

Hi all,
I've previously suggested streamlining the negative traits a bit. My idea was to make them all require you to roll 1 die before acting, and failing on a roll of 1.
As the new discussion on vampires is moving OFAB in this direction, and WA is also being debated once again - I thought it was time to bring this up again.

I mean, does WA really need to be that bad?
And what about take root. Talk about a single 4+ that can decide a game.

The idea:

Basic Negatrait text:
"Roll 1 D6 immediately prior to declaring an action with any player that has one or more negative skills. On a roll of 1....."

Always Hungry: "...the player feels peckish. If there is 1 or more stunty team mates in his tackle zone, pick one, and make an injury roll for him."
(Note how this can be combined with both WA and RS)

Bone Head: "...the player does not get to take an action this turn, and loses his tacklezone until he manages to pass a bone-head roll."

Off for a Bite: - whatever is decided in the "New OFAB" thread.

Really Stupid: "...your opponent decides what kind of action is declared for the player. The opponent must choose an action that you were allowed to pick yourself."

Take Root: "...the player can not move or be moved out of the square that he occupies. The effect lasts until the end of the current drive".

Wild Animal: "...the player must declare a foul action - even if your team has already taken one this turn. Whether the player actually fouls an opponent or not, his wild trashing about gives the referee that impression! Make an IGMEOY roll and move the IGMEOY counter as appropriate."

Comments and Ideas are welcome :D
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Post by Colin »

I like the take root idea. Simple and alot fairer.

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Post by sean newboy »

In general i think should be at the beginning of the turn rather than at the beginning of activating the player.

Always hungry- should be any stunty (and possibly tichty). randomly picked.

Really stupid- Not sure i like this, most coaches should make it an instant turnover, i would always pick something that required an agility roll if possible. If the ball were loose and within range i would insist on a pass action, especially if he started in tz's, yes he could throw team mate instead but that would still leave the ball loose.

Wild Animal- should have to blitz (even if adjacent) if no foul is possible, i.e. start of a drive.

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Re: Streamlining the Negatraits

Post by Mestari »

Ok, the others are not bad, very competitive alternatives for the current skills... but, these two are not good:



Really Stupid: "...your opponent decides what kind of action is declared for the player. The opponent must choose an action that you were allowed to pick yourself."


No, this is not good, not good at all. Can't say I have anything better in mind, but this is definitely not good. Maybe just roll two dice instead of one, and consider both dies as bonehead rolls.

Wild Animal: "...the player must declare a foul action - even if your team has already taken one this turn. Whether the player actually fouls an opponent or not, his wild trashing about gives the referee that impression! Make an IGMEOY roll and move the IGMEOY counter as appropriate."

No. Let's put it this way:
"Player moves like a Ball-and-Chain Fanatic for this turn, except that he has to make dodges to leave tackle zones."

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Re: Streamlining the Negatraits

Post by Mestari »

Mestari wrote: Really Stupid: "...your opponent decides what kind of action is declared for the player. The opponent must choose an action that you were allowed to pick yourself."

No, this is not good, not good at all. Can't say I have anything better in mind, but this is definitely not good. Maybe just roll two dice instead of one, and consider both dies as bonehead rolls.
Well, do you have any reasons for why this is not good? You're just saying that without giving any evidence! Stupid.
Mestari wrote: Even though the fact is that you're really losing it now - replying to yourself - I'll answer your stupid question:

It really isn't too negative, as even though the opponent chooses some action, you really don't have to do anything. Most of the time the player would just stand there instead of moving. And that's exactly the same as it used to be, except that the rule is more complex and it is less negative also due to the fact that he fails the roll only 1/6. So I wouldn't mind if Really Stupid would stay as it used to be.

So there you go.
Ok, that clears it up a bit. Oh, maybe I should get some sleep.
Mestari wrote: You sure should. Programming all night isn't too healthy and by the evening of the next day, you're bound to start babbling with yourself. Lucky we don't have a mirror to talk with.
Right. I'll post one more post to Tactics-forum, and then we'll go to sleep.
Mestari wrote: Fine with me

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Post by Colin »

Mestari is writing replies to and quoting himself?!? WTF? Is he on medication or what? :P

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Post by sean newboy »

Not sure but we (Sean and I) definately think he should be, after all he is crazy. Glad Sean and I arent that loony. :roll:

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Post by Zy-Nox »

Aight...I like the take root idea
The really stupid is just that,Sorry I just disagree with it.
The always hungry is also a bit harsh.
And the Wild animal....nice idea but I think I'd rather see it go back too the 4th edition version :-?

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Post by Zombie »

What's the point in making all the negative racial caracteristics 2+? What's wrong with the current skills? I can't see any incentive for going that way.

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Post by Pink Horror »

Hey, after you're done making all the negative traits only have an effect on 1s, can you guys make all the positive skills only work on 6s? Then everything will work the same way!

:puke:



Pink Horror

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Side Note

Post by Cervidal »

In regards to the Really Stupid suggestion above...

No, forcing a Really Stupid player to do a pass action when in TZs would not be that fatal. Just because a player declares a Blitz, Handoff, or Pass does not mean they have to actually do any of those options. Example:

Rookie Elf Lineman is looking to dump the ball off downfield. I declare the pass, but I need to dodge away twice, for whatever reason. I fail one of those dodges and am forced to use a team reroll. Now I suddenly don't feel very confident in the pass without having that team reroll to back up a botch, so I don't throw the ball. My Pass action is used up for the turn, but I don't suffer a turnover.

There are similar reasons why I might declare a Blitz or Handoff but, as the player's turn progresses, I would not actually throw the block or give up the ball.

I kind of like the Really Stupid idea above. The player would most likely end up standing around like an idiot and the team could lose one of its actions.

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Post by Grumbledook »

Changing really stupid to do that would cripple goblin teams even more. Its bad enough when he fails that he just stands there and loses his tackle zone. Or even worse fails the roll and can't roll over from stunned. The minute you start letting your opponent pick your actions, your taking away tactical decisions from the coach whose turn it is. Its bad enough for them that they have a player who can't do anything that turn, to then deny him a blitz on say a ball carrier who has broken through and can score next turn is ludicrous. As far as I am aware the onyl problem with big traits so far has been wild animal. As for the need to streamlining them, there is no need to do this, they are simple as they are, wouldn't have made it in the rulebook otherwise.

Only thing i might change other than wild animal is the treeman, seems a tad harsh that he misses a whole half on a 4+ roll. I would think having it the same as bonehead would be a better solution, I guess someone felt there was a need to differentiate between them. Mind you maybe coaches who use treeman would rather keep it as it is, they then at least get one roll and then maybe have him for the whole match with no other wide affects.

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Post by MickeX »

Can't really see the point of changing these - but the Take Root-idea is great. Just remember to word it so that the treeman can't follow up either.

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Post by plasmoid »

Hi all,
thanks to pink for the totally relevant, yet very witty comment :roll:

Zombie said:
What's the point in making all the negative racial caracteristics 2+? What's wrong with the current skills? I can't see any incentive for going that way.

2 things. First, I wanted to make the negatraits slightly less complicated. Secondly, it seems that the current versions of both Take Root and Wild Animal are unpopular, so if a change was due, perhaps making things simpler isn't a bad idea. (Also, perhaps OFAB is moving this way too).

Anyway, take root was well recieved. Great :)

Very Stupid wasn't. Fair enough - it's a roll before acting allready - so adding the clause "-2 to the roll if not in a team mates tz", will totally bring the old skill in line with the others.

Wild Animal needs work.
IMO, it is the worst of the old negatraits - and I don't even play skaven.
To me it seems very excessive.
Any suggestions?

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Post by Furelli »

Wow. This is the first time I have read this thread and I like it. The nega-traits are only used by the big guys so making them a simple:
Declare action -> Roll 1d6 -> if 1 bad thing happens
is a wonderful streamlining of the rules. I also like the new take root that has been proposed here. It gives the same feeling as the current take root but is slightly less harsh (on average).

poss new WA:

If roll is 1 move WA half its movement (round down) in a random direction (dodge rolls do not need to be made), if this move is unhindered move other half movement in a second random direction. If the WA attempts to enter a square containing another player the WA will throw a free block at him or a free foul at him if he is prone. The WA recieves no assists for this free action. The other player is considered to be on the opposing team until the free action has been resolved. This does not use theteams foul or blitz for this turn unless that action was declared.


Furelli.

p.s. This idea started simple in my head.

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