Too many rule changes...

[Ghost of Pariah]

Nope. No error. You can start with any Fan Factor you like. 25 if you want to!

[Kri]

If you have Horns and Frenzy and stands next to an opponent with Stand Firm. If you block him, the first block is +0 ST and the second is also +0 ST, or is the second +1ST?

And what happens if the opponent hasn´t SF?

[Ghost of Pariah]

If you block him you can't use horns. Horns only works on a blitz and if you move one square before the blitz.
Now if you through a frenzied blitz on a player standing next to you and you pushed him back I really don't know if you could use horns or not.
In my league you can't but who knows what the LRB says about it this week.

[Anthony_TBBF]

Nope. No error. You can start with any Fan Factor you like. 25 if you want to!

I believe Chet mentioned in another post that this was an oversight. 9FF is the max.

[Anthony_TBBF]

From the Horns description in the LRB:

"If the player has the Frenzy trait, then the horns bonus applies on the
second block if it applied on the first."

You should read the rulebook, it really is quite good.

[gallowin]

Stand Firm doesn't stop Frenzy.

If the trait says you completely ignore Push back results... wouldn't that stop the 2nd hit of Frenzy? The text of Frenzy reads "IF a frenzied players pushes an opponent back". How about strip ball against a Stand Firm opponent? Same issue.

If both Frenzy & Strip Ball are played off the die roll and not the result of the action the rules should say something like
"... regardless if they are pushed back, a push back on the block dice they (get the 2nd hit, pop the ball out)".

IMO Frenzy & Strip Ball are negated by Stand Firm.

[Zombie]

They're not supposed to work that way, but according to the way the rules are worded now, i believe you're right, they do. I think you've just found another loophole.

[GalakStarscraper]

Stand Firm doesn't stop Frenzy.

If the trait says you completely ignore Push back results... wouldn't that stop the 2nd hit of Frenzy? The text of Frenzy reads "IF a frenzied players pushes an opponent back". How about strip ball against a Stand Firm opponent? Same issue.

If both Frenzy & Strip Ball are played off the die roll and not the result of the action the rules should say something like
"... regardless if they are pushed back, a push back on the block dice they (get the 2nd hit, pop the ball out)".

IMO Frenzy & Strip Ball are negated by Stand Firm.

Uhhhhh ... guys .... on page 1 of this thread I posted the exact text of the LRB that clarifies this completely:

Page 34 of the LRB 1.3

3. Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order
to work. These skills will work as long as you roll a
push back on the Blocking dice.

Galak

[gallowin]

Sorry Galak, I had missed that part of your post.

When I read #3 it doesn't quite satisfy me. If the intention of #3 is that any skill that triggers on a push will over-ride all other skills then I'd like the wording tweaked "... on the Blocking dice even if they don't move back because of another skill."

I'll let my league know. Thanks for the clarification.

[nouge]

Page 34 of the LRB 1.3

3. Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order
to work. These skills will work as long as you roll a
push back on the Blocking dice.

The way this is worded, it sounds like you actually have to roll a push back (ie. an arrow) as opposed to rolling a result that has the effect of pushing the player back (eg. player with Dodge & Stand Firm on a pow-with-an-exclamation-mark result) for skills like Frenzy and Strip Ball to work.

Is that how it's supposed to work? I'd always thought that the pow-with-an-exlcamation-mark was the same as a push back for these purposes (if the target has Dodge).

[Zombie]

Damn, i got it upside down again. I was remembering that part, but i thought it said the exact opposite. Well, memory fades when you get my age. Thanks Galak.

[GalakStarscraper]

Page 34 of the LRB 1.3

3. Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order
to work. These skills will work as long as you roll a
push back on the Blocking dice.

The way this is worded, it sounds like you actually have to roll a push back (ie. an arrow) as opposed to rolling a result that has the effect of pushing the player back (eg. player with Dodge & Stand Firm on a pow-with-an-exclamation-mark result) for skills like Frenzy and Strip Ball to work.

Is that how it's supposed to work? I'd always thought that the pow-with-an-exlcamation-mark was the same as a push back for these purposes (if the target has Dodge).

You are being too literal. The correct way to look at the Pow/Dodge roll is the result is an arrow if they have Dodge and the result is a Pow if they don't. Remember its okay to interpret the clear intention of the rule, instead of nitting the exact wording. If you roll Pow/Dodge and your opponent has Dodge, you HAVE rolled a push back result.

Galak

[nouge]

You are being too literal. The correct way to look at the Pow/Dodge roll is the result is an arrow if they have Dodge and the result is a Pow if they don't. Remember its okay to interpret the clear intention of the rule, instead of nitting the exact wording. If you roll Pow/Dodge and your opponent has Dodge, you HAVE rolled a push back result.

That's what I figured - but I kind of suspect the intention only seems clear because of knowledge of previous editions of the rules. There seems in places to be an implied difference between rolling a ' push back' (arrow), and an actual push back result on a player.

I guess #3 rule should say something like "These skills will work as long as a player would normally be pushed back, even if use of a skill or trait prevents the push back." Hmm, not great wording, but I'm sure it could be tightened up.

I guess I'm just a nit-picker from way back. Don't judge me.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Anthony-
I have read the rule book but which one I'm not sure.
I know I read the 3rd and 4th editions, then I read the LRB, after that I think I read 1.1, 1.2 and some of 1.3. Is there a 1.4 yet or do we have to wait for them to go through the motions of another pretend meeting before Andy makes 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6?

[Anthony_TBBF]

The LRB has been at 1.3 for a while... it's not that hard to keep track of.