Man Ogre, Human Team Big Guy

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:51 pm

I think Toby has good ideas but he just implements them in the most complex and problematic ways he can find!

Maybe he should try to design a whole new game? There are loads of gamers out there who love overly compex games.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:01 pm

Wait when I am fhinished, I will make you PAY to get a hold of that Blood Bowl Mag 47...

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:52 pm

I had to go and look up the definition of good there. I thought I didn't know what it meant. Some of the ideas aren't bad but all are extraneous and complex. That's not good for the game.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:13 pm

Just do what i do and use the Zug model with ogre stats, then voila no more ogre but the big guy remains

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:26 pm

McDeth wrote:Just do what i do and use the Zug model with ogre stats, then voila no more ogre but the big guy remains

Yo, thats what I do (did). I while doing it, I was wondering why not to do this

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Human Team Big Guy = -1 MA, -Thick Skull, +Block

Because if you do this to an Ogre, you get a Mighty Zug with RC's.

I really do wonder why nobody picks up the topic and adds a comment like "Block is to powerful" or something like that. Everybody seems to have this "Leave it be" reflex kind of thing...

Of course you can always play the game and say "this Mighty Zug model represents my Ogre". Fine. As soon as he aquires his first Skill he is the same as the original Mighty Zug Star Player, only better because of +1MA and +Thick Skull. (RC's missing)

I really don't understand the aversion to experiment with the game mechanics. Fine, stick to your Ogres.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:30 pm

I've seen a fair number of people that think a 4+ starting player with block is unbalancing, and I tend to agree with them. I could see a Half Ogre with a stat line of 4 4 3 8 with Bonehead and Thick Skull.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:37 pm

Well i share the concern about ST5 & Block, but on the other Hand humans only have ST3 Players (other than the Big Guy);

I have to say that to me, "Thick Skull" is a racial characteristic.
Based on that assumption, i thought that "Fluffwise" a Half Ogre has no "Thick Skull".

All you need to get "Block" is that first 6 Starplayer Points; Getting +1MA is harder, "Thick Skull" impossible regardless if "Physical Trait" or "Racial Characteristic".

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:43 pm

Okay, I conceed that you only need 6 SPP's to get block. But does a Black Orc really need anything else after he gets there? And how long does it take him to get to that level? If a Black Orc started with block, he'd have to be priced around 110, just to keep game balance. Block on high strength starting players really is that good, and it's the one rule that hasn't been broken yet by experimental teams.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:59 pm

I agree with you Skummy. I just think that the situation might be a little bit diffrent for a human team. Humans are something like sucky Elves that don't die that easilie. Orcs are quite bashy, and 4*ST4+Block is more of an army than that single ST5 Guy.
Do you think theres that much difference between ST4 and ST 5 if you only have one such player ? I mean, blocking a ST3 Player is always 2 dice, regardless if you are ST4 or 5.
I don't want to defend that Block skill at all cost. But on the other Hand, it might be an interesting thing to have 1 Human Player in the game that can take on even toughest opponents. It would give the humans more of a profile in that "hit'em, hit'em hard" game plan.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:02 pm

Humans are the most versatile team in the game, not "sucky Elves!" They have cheap positional players, which means that they can develop a full roster pretty much from day 1 - something Elves can only dream about. Strength skills on their 4 blitzers is huge, since they can get guard and Mighty Blow to exploit teams that are weaker than they are.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:09 pm

We have this in our league :
0/2 Human blocker 5 4 2 8 80.000 acess to general and strengh

it works good to us, try it Toby, and tell me what you think

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:13 pm

@ Skummy

When you have a rookie Human team and try to play a passing game, ist like Elves only worse but more robust, thats what I tried to say.

You don't want to compate a human teams hitting power to that of an Orc team, do you ? Humans can do anything, but nothing right

Sooner or Later as an Human coach you will get that ST5+Block Big Guy.
With the original Ogre, its later. With my Man Ogre, sooner.

I also think that MA5 on a Hitter is quite an advantage over 4. For that decisive Blitz on the Ballcarier you might want to make sure he goes down...

Thick Skull, don't know. Is it really that usefull ? I think its nice to hav but I would never pick it;

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:16 pm

Longshot wrote:We have this in our league :
0/2 Human blocker 5 4 2 8 80.000 acess to general and strengh

it works good to us, try it Toby, and tell me what you think

I think its good, good for the Human Team

But honestly i would be a little bit concerned because theese two are almost Black Orc Bashers on a Human Team...

And you get an ADDITIONAL Big Guy Ogre I suppose ?

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:50 am

Man Ogre Blocker (Bone Head)

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(0-1) Rookie 4/4/2/9 Mighty Blow,Block 120.000 GE,ST

Ogre Blocker (Bone Head, Big Guy, Thick Skull)

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(0-1) Rookie 5/5/2/9 Mighty Blow        120.000 GE,ST

Teams could only have one of theese two as both use the same Blocker (Big Guy) Slot. Races would be Human and Norse.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue May 06, 2003 1:39 pm

Toby: Whoa, I somehow missed the above post on human abilities. My take on it is this: Humans aren't particularly good at any one thing, but they can do everything well. They can out hit an elf team, they can out pass an Orc team, and they can out run a Dwarf team. A good human coach plays to the weaknesses of the roster he's up against. They are one of the few teams in Blood Bowl that can actually change their style of play from game to game, and that's a really big advantage.