Ogres access poll.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:47 pm

Thadrin wrote:
A question I've been asking since this whole debate started...people seem to be worried about hordes of dwarfs with guard, while ignoring teams full of Blodge Elves and Amazons (which develop quicker).

I've been playing against a lot of these lately and can tell you that they are extremely boring games.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:56 pm

I think he's right. I realy am not liking the Amazon team.

The linewomen cost the same as Norse linemen yet they have easy access to Blodge.
The blitzers come with Block and Dodge yet they cost the same as as just about any other blitzer.
Why the hell are Amazon re-rolls 40K and Norse re-rolls cost 60K...this is the one I really don't get. Is this just some silly fluff rule? 40K is awfully cheap for a team that comes loaded with Blodge.

I'd rather take on a few guarding longbeards anyday!

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:03 pm

Amazons are supposed to be a Girl Team, and Girls can't play... this is evening the odds for them...

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 8:13 pm

Dark Lord: Amazons have lower TRR's than most teams because they don't have a big guy.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:00 pm

stop crying on Blodge, take some tacle and then they ll be crying!
Amazones are not that good. I believe them pretty weak.

MatB · Post by **MatB** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:37 pm

I don't get this, I really don't.

Ogres are mercenaries, and will play for anyone that hires them, it's in all the backgrounds of all the WFB background games.

Dwarves have lots of Gold. and have no problems with mercenaries either.

So the background problem isn't.

So we go to game balance. Ogres are fine in a Dwarf team, are probably fine in all teams.

I have no problem with them being around, never did.

Friend of mine uses one in his Dwarf team, and painted it up in his team colours, he's a good player.

Me? I don't use them, but I like to maneouvre the ball a lot, not just hit people...

Sp. explain t me why, in terms of game balance, Ogres should be removed from Dwarves, but not other teams?

Why not allow most teams access to them, virtually every army in Warhammer can hire them as mercenaries.

Dark Lord (retired) · Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:35 pm

Longshot wrote:stop crying on Blodge, take some tacle and then they ll be crying!
Amazones are not that good. I believe them pretty weak.

You're missing the point but I see by your avatar that you are a goblin so I'll slow down and use smaller words.

I see more Amazons running amok than dwarves. The Amazon team has things to counter it's lack of big guy...nice things! Like easy Blodge access and low prices reroll.
Dwarves get low priced reroll but they have AG 2 to go with it. Dwarfs get a lot of block but theyt also get ab average movement of 4.5. They also get no wizard and no agility skills
If you take away their big guy you need to replace it.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:50 am

MatB wrote:Ogres are mercenaries, and will play for anyone that hires them, it's in all the backgrounds of all the WFB background games.

Ogres will play for anyone who pays them, but who wants to hire them? A lot of teams would rather die than play alongside an Ogre and the fans may not appreciate it either.

To my mind Dwarves, Orcs, Gobbos and 'flings all ought to lose access to Ogres.

Chaos/Norse I'm less bothered about but it makes some sense. Why take another big guy when Ogres are available?

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:32 am

Thadrin wrote:
Dark Lord wrote:I'm not a huge fan of the ogre on dwarf teams but I think it was removed from dwarves but left on orcs I'd like an explaination. Orcs already have access to 4 blitzers and 4 ST 4 blockers...not to mention their 4 goblins! I think an ogre is just icing on the cake. What do the dwarves get that is so tough that the only decent secret weapon they get should fill both spots?
A question I've been asking since this whole debate started...people seem to be worried about hordes of dwarfs with guard, while ignoring teams full of Blodge Elves and Amazons (which develop quicker).

Same here!

Furthermore I'd like to see Ogres removed from:

- Dwarfs, for Fluff reasons. They should get a better usable Deathroller instead (better usable than the SW rules in BBMag!)

- Orcs, they are incredibly good already; having relatively cheap and good players, the best overall AV (only 2 throwers have 8, the rest of the orcs have 9!) and a troll fits in more

- Goblins and Halflings for obvious reasons

About humans: I don think they really need an ogre, but I don't see a good reason not to give them one, and fluff-wise they should get them (I think)

R

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:19 am

you're forgetting goblins (AV 7)

with humans, it's definitely in the fluff and they need it as much as other teams do (say for instance dwarfs).

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:47 am

Maybe you should re-read my post again, Grotemuis; I just said that I DON'T see a good reason to remove ogres from human teams and that Fluff-wise they SHOULD get them.
Furthermore Human teams don't need the ogre as much as some other teams (I agree with other people here that no team really needs an ogre, unless it has to face of a lot of teams that do have one; the ogre-arms-race...) since humans are not a real Str team, and can devellop quite well into a more agility-style of play, in which cast they really don't need an ogre. (If you want to go Str-style with humies, an ogre will be very handy).

Goblins in an Orc team are definitely not necessary and often only used when a fast score is needed. Most of the time an Orc-team will field one (AV8) thrower and 10 AV9 players.

R

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:58 am

in that you are correct, that's how i use them. I don't know however how other people use them.

secondly i was not questioning your judgement on the human thing, I was adding to it.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:03 am

Oh, ok, sorry...

I'm a bit cranky, I think...

R

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:53 am

I'd remove them from halfling, goblin, orc, chaos and dwarf team lists.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:22 pm

I would downsize the Ogres from halflings, goblins, chaos and orcs.

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Ogres access poll.

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