Man Ogre, Human Team Big Guy

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:28 pm

Miniature "Mighty Zug"
Man Ogre (Big Guy, Bone Head)
Blocker Rookie 4/5/2/9 Mighty Blow, Block
120.000 GE,ST

Miniature "Morg'n'Thorg"
Ogre (Big Guy, Bone Head, Thick Skull)
Blocker Rookie 5/5/2/9 Mighty Blow
120.000 GE, ST

Remove "Ogre" from Human Team, add "Man Ogre" (Human Team Big Guy = -1 MA, -Thick Skull, +Block)

Q: Toby, do you have to much time ?
A: Unfortunately Yes.
Q: OK, Why not just leave the Ogre alone ?
A: Because its boring that almost all teams field an Ogre.
Q: What Other Teams do you think should lose their Ogre ?
A: Chaos, they already have a Troll or a Minotaur and Dwarf because their Big Guy is obviously a Deathroller.
Q: Why do you list "Thick Skull" as a Racial Characteristic ?
A: Because thats the only thing that actualy makes sense for this attribute.
Q: "Man Ogre" like "Rat Ogre" ?
A: Actually that's what the Games Workshop onlinestore says Mighty Zug is.
Q: Still tring to get your beloved Starplayers back Toby ?
A: Its about the miniatures, and its about trading fast and easy attribute acces versus gold and control.
Q: Any Progress ?
A: Thanks to TBB you will love the "Champions of Blood Bowl" Epansion Pack.
Q: Don't think so...
A: Me neither...

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:34 pm

Man Ogre?? Why not call them half-ogres (what Zug really is). Zug is a SP so if you were to use half-ogre rookie blockers, their strength should be only 4. The only problem with including half-ogre blockers on a human team is that it would start to look too much like an orc team.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:44 pm

Hey they only get ONE ST5 Guy, the Orcs have FOUR ST4 and ONE ST5.

Tell me more about Half-Ogres, can it be that "Man Ogre" = Half Ogre (Warhammerworld).
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront ... abase=1405

GW wrote:Need some serious muscle in your starting line up? Then the Mighty Zug is the perfect Star Player to hire for your Human team. This Man-Ogre can stop your opponent's offensive drive dead.

What about the stats, ST 4 rest is ok ?
Don't you think that ST4 should make the guy a little bit cheaper or maybe lose the Big Guy or Bonehead RC ?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:56 pm

I would say that if you do a half-ogre blocker for human team they could look like this;

0-2 half-ogre blocker 4 4 2 9 Mighty Blow (not sure on cost)
don't need big guy RC as only ST 4, but if start as ST5 (like Zug) then, yes give BG and bonehead.

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 7:14 am

One day I'm sure you will come up with an idea I like Toby.
one day you will say something I agree with.

This is not that day.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:39 am

I agree with Thadrin.

Humans are one of the two teams I think should keep the ogre. Humans and Halflings should get thema and nobody else.

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:47 am

Nope. Not with you on Humans keeping Ogres. Chaos (cos of Fluff) and their own team only.

I would support the right of most races to be able to FREEBOOT ogres though. ...including Humans and Dwarfs.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:55 am

The question of who is allowed to keep Ogres is obviously on of the most divided issues here on TBB. Ask 10 coaches and you will get 10 different answers, so far nearly EVERY team has been mentioned to lose or to get Ogres. The only point which everyone agree with is that there is too much overall Ogre access...

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:59 pm

Giving the Humans access to a Half-Ogre player is a good idea, the Human team is very weak. But this isjust based on the fact that I have never seen someone play Humans well (including me).

-Balrog

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:02 pm

This may be bizarre, but I agree with Thads. Ogres are supposed to be mercs, so basically they should be available only to freeboot for most teams, not as a permanent addition.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:40 pm

That "Old World" Warhammer Fluff is nice, but Game Design should be the Focus of Balancing and Feature distributuion.

Feature Distribution means that it is Boring to give every Team an Ogre just because of the map of the Old World. It also means that a well designed Character like Mighty Zug should get a chance to get his appearance in the game.

Balancing is the Question about the Pro's and Con's of this:
Human Team Big Guy = -1 MA, -Thick Skull, +Block

I think its ok to have the ST5 & Block Combo on the Human team because:
The Character is not allowed to use Team Rerolls (Big Guy), and it is the only Strength Character on the Human Team. The MA -1 limits Blitzing Moves and it is harder to get "+1 MA" with your first Starplayer Roll on a Man Ogre than "Block" for an Ogre.

And Thadrin i really dont like your "Ban All Players except Linemen" Attitude. Why don't you create some Linemen Only Team Lists of your own istead of bashing every single thing related with my approach ?

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:34 pm

Toby wrote: And Thadrin i really dont like your "Ban All Players except Linemen" Attitude. Why don't you create some Linemen Only Team Lists of your own istead of bashing every single thing related with my approach ?

Toby -
I disagree with pretty much every idea you come up with. I try very hard not to make it seem personal - because it isn't. You want some honesty - I have seen you post an awful lot of ideas and pretty much every one has INSTANTLY made me wonder what you were smoking.

I don't want Linemen only rosters. I think the basic rosters - minus Big guys - are just fine as they are. THEY are Balanced is theat's your concern. What I want to see is a return to Big guys being an occasional variation in the rosters, not something every damn team has - and I mean every single team who CAN have one in that. There needs to be a cost to maintain the balance. I've posted what I want to see happen with big guys a whole bunch of times, and I really can't be bothered looking for the thread again. Its around somewhere. Go find it and read it.

I also think that the last thing we need is even more variations on the same theme - half ogres and whatever else it is you come up with. Zug is a one off.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:05 pm

Cahos must have Ogre, remenber about Morg in the Cahos All stars?
Forget about Man Ogre, and find the old thread about Human blockers.

boondog · Post by **boondog** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:31 pm

Yup, I like the idea of Zug nowadays being considered some kind of "Half Ogre", but then, amending the human roster to make such a hybrid a permanent addition gives me a headache. Zug's a Star Player, he's one in a million. Just think: how common would an ogre-human hybrid be? How many men would mate with a female Ogre? (not to many I hope) and even less women would submit themselves to the attention of a love-struck Ogre - and even less of their eventual offspring would be allowed to survive in human society to reach an age where they could have ST5. Ogres are everywhere, and that's a good thing. No more crossbreeding, please. (Next thing you know, half-orcs are back - uurrgh)

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:53 pm

Boondog wrote:(Next thing you know, half-orcs are back - uurrgh)

Don't let Galak hear you say that!