Monthly Poll: Is Blood Bowl Tabletop "New Player Friendly"?

[faust_33]

Last month the poll questions was "Given their complexity, would you willingly play or play against Nurgle in tabletop?". A complex question in itself! Most people responded "Yes" (89%), the rest said "No", and no one wondered what a Nurgle was (option #3).

This month we ponder on whether the Blood Bowl game is friendly to new players. I've seen the topic come up often, and usually things like complexity, game length, player longevity, etc. are also brought up. Please vote and feel free to elaborate in a comment!

[Darkson]

I've walked through quite a few people (all gamers to start with to be fair) and they all picked it up quite quickly, though some things, like block assists and Guard stumped them for a while.

Recently I've been using BB7s, as that seems a little more "newbie-friendly".

[Heff]

Darn sight friendlier than online. Cyanide is a den of villainy and disconnectors, Fumbbl a hive of pickers and foulers.

[Babs]

My complaint is that you need to look in at least 4 different locations for the rules (OK - three if you have the Almanac).
Add to that, the fact that most boxed teams don't have a complete roster, and many significantly benefit from a big guy. Speaking of, some of the key players are only available from that 'other' website, Forge World.

WAAAAAAY too complicated for newcomers. As such, I think Blitz Bowl, coming out, looks like a good concept.

[JT-Y]

The biggest issue is that the rules were written about 28 years ago and have been edited by committee. It will be improved at some point I'm sure.

[Wifflebat]

The game ecosystem can be rough, what with the different editions of the rules out there, the fact that there's a (slight) lack of consensus as to what edition we're even playing, players disagreeing about rulesets, and so on.

BUT...

I've never been around a game scene where players were more welcoming and helpful to people who want to get into the game. Not just helpful--eager to demo the game, show new players the ropes, and invite them into leagues and to tournaments.

The boxed set is creating a great entry point for new players; the key is not overwhelming them when they step beyond that.

And assuring them that they will, in fact, be able to calculate assists easily after a few games...

[rolo]

The rules are complex, located in too many different books, and worse, the new BB16 rules are often "Secret" and only available to people who have bought several different pricey boxed sets. And you do need to buy two boxes to get a complete team, although most people will loan a newbie a team to get them started.

I think what makes or breaks a new player's experience isn't the rules so much as whoever's teaching them. It takes patience and friendliness, because the learning curve is steep and there's a certain kind of coach who loves getting cheap wins by bullying newbies.

So if people are complaining that Blood Bowl is tough to get into ... we as coaches ought to look in the mirror first.

By the way, I know it's fashionable here to rag on Cyanide (and they do screw up a lot of things which shouldn't be hard to get right), but the "Campaign" in BB2 is actually pretty good at teaching the rules. It starts off with just movement of players in the first couple games, die rolls automatically pass, blocks don't cause turnovers, players only get stunned. Then they add dice for agility rolls. Then they add assists and blocking. Then injuries. Then turnovers. I might be getting the order wrong, but the game teaches one aspect at a time.

[Wifflebat]

The biggest issue is that the rules were written about 28 years ago and have been edited by committee. It will be improved at some point I'm sure.

Really?

Are you talking about the presentation/writing of the rules, or do you think that the rules themselves are somehow watered-down, inconsistent, or lacking? Can you give specific examples?

Totally not trolling, just to be clear. Your voice is one that I have great respect for, and I'd love to know what you think is lacking! I came back to BB five or six years ago after being away (mostly) since LRB2 (although I did pop in for a sad look around LRB4) and I've been very pleased at how the rules have evolved.

[JT-Y]

It's just the age of the thing. It can be a bit hard to read. There's nothing wrong with the game, it performs as intended, real world sports can be an emotional roller coaster and BB does a good job of capturing that and more.
If you look at the way games like this were written back then and how they are now, the language has evolved somewhat. So to today's gamers BB can be hard to unpack. We've all played it for a long time so we don't always see that, but we should be aware of that when it comes to newcomers to the game.

[Wifflebat]

Got it. I also feel that way about the rules structure that's been there since 3rd ed, where, for example, assists, hand-offs and Go For Its are in the "advanced" section of the rules.

It makes for a lousy rules reference after your initial games are out of the way. Much preferable to have a well-organized rulebook and an additional document for learning purposes, not unlike what Fantasy Flight does these days (although theirs are sometimes less than ideal). I've made my own edited version without the rules separation and it's much easier to use for reference.

[sann0638]

Darn sight friendlier than online. Cyanide is a den of villainy and disconnectors, Fumbbl a hive of pickers and foulers.

Nah. The 145 league on Fumbbl is super-friendly.

[mikeyc222]

Cyanide is a den of villainy and disconnectors

don't forget to add that the random number generator is completely broken!
i know, i know... i've heard all the arguments that it isn't, but when the only dwarf team in a starting league gets significantly out casualtied by 4 elf teams and 2 human teams all season long, that's broken... for reals. after game 1, i think it was maybe game 5 before i was able to field a team without any journeymen. and no, that's not the only reason i think it's broken.
aside from that, i just didn't like the BB2 online experience and won't be playing it again.

[stowelly]

Darn sight friendlier than online. Cyanide is a den of villainy and disconnectors, Fumbbl a hive of pickers and foulers.

Nah. The 145 league on Fumbbl is super-friendly.

agreed! if you can link new coaches to the 145 group https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=3180&op=view and the discord channel https://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modlo ... e&sid=1933 there are a lot of really helpful coaches with useful advice (ignore any of mine!), and some tips to avoid pickers

and as for fouling? why would you speak bad of the best part of the game??

[Heff]

Cyanide is a den of villainy and disconnectors

don't forget to add that the random number generator is completely broken!
i know, i know... i've heard all the arguments that it isn't, but when the only dwarf team in a starting league gets significantly out casualtied by 4 elf teams and 2 human teams all season long, that's broken... for reals. after game 1, i think it was maybe game 5 before i was able to field a team without any journeymen. and no, that's not the only reason i think it's broken.
aside from that, i just didn't like the BB2 online experience and won't be playing it again.

Play dwarves, Get what you deserve.

[Heff]

Darn sight friendlier than online. Cyanide is a den of villainy and disconnectors, Fumbbl a hive of pickers and foulers.

Nah. The 145 league on Fumbbl is super-friendly.

agreed! if you can link new coaches to the 145 group https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=3180&op=view and the discord channel https://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modlo ... e&sid=1933 there are a lot of really helpful coaches with useful advice (ignore any of mine!), and some tips to avoid pickers

and as for fouling? why would you speak bad of the best part of the game??

I have had the run of the game. You are struggling to do anything. I will sit over here with the ball while hunting down any of your players with a skill and foul them until they are dead. Oh what a shame your next three games are exactly the same.

That and the fact that leagues are dominated by a few teams that have survived to have over 2k team value and just run around bullying the chaff they come up against put me off online play.