I want to Split "Stunty" in 3 Skills

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:59 am

Stunty is: A. Dodging B. Throwing C. Injury

I was thinking about:

A. "Stunty" (Special Ability) -> When the player makes a dodge roll, the modifier for the roll is always +1.

B. "Short Arms" (Racial Characteristic) -> When the player is taking a Pass Action, he must increase the range by one band.

C. "Little One" (Racial Characteristic) -> When a injury roll is rolled for the player +1 is added to the score.

Explanation:
The Goblin Star Players seem to be a little buggy. For example the lost "Stunty" and some lost "Right Stuff". For a experimental Goblin Team I need to get some things sorted out like Dodging & Secret weapons and Bombs & Stunty. Im pretty confident spliting the 3 Features can help.

So what do you think of the Name's (Stunty, Short Arms, Litle One) and is there a reason why this "Skillset" can or should not be split. thx

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:07 am

Stunty used to be awfully powerful on gutter runners, even with the restrictions applied. Get rid of those restrictions, and give skaven access to stunty again (they don't right now), and you're asking for trouble.

So the question is, why split it? It's perfectly fine the way it is now.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:12 am

The names are fine but I don't see why you want to mess with it. All 3 of those aspects are a part of stunty. All you need to do is one of two things:

A) realize that star players ruin the game and do away with the whole lot of them

B) realize that star players have overcome some of the handicaps normally associated with their respective races in much the same way they no longer have an actual position. Star players are special that way.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:32 am

First of All Star Player are the single coolest thing in the whole Game.

Problem is, there are no Star Players designed for LRB 2.0 BloodBowl. The Star Players that are availiable right now are imbalanced and do not fit into the Game at all, therefore screw it.

We are Talking about House Rules in this Forum so i feel free to experiment...

Stunty. Problem is, give a Goblin a Chainsaw, and he LOOSES STUNTY.

BUG ! RC's cann never be lost or gained !!! so, solution, he Looses the Stunty ABILITY, but remains tied up with the Sort Arms RC and the Little Guy RC.

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:52 am

If I remember correctly, the Stunty description had an extra paragraph which said something like "If a stunty player is equipped with a Secret Weapon, he may not ignore tacklezones when dodging (the weight of the weapon slows down the little bugger)". There is a solution to the problem in the Racial Characteristic description. I can't understand why they happily ignored it when remaking the Secret Weapons rules.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:52 am

If you seriously think that star players are a good thing for the game (in any shape or form), then you're clearly in the minority here. I'd go so far as to say that they're one of the most universally hated concepts in Blood Bowl, right after allies.

Modifying a rule so it can fit a couple of star players better doesn't seem like a winning proposition. Of course, in your own league, you're welcome to do anything you want (if the other coaches can swallow it of course).

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:15 pm

Zombie, what is a Star Player ?

Right now its a impossible overpowered Creature.
Some Star Players actually are Secret Weapons... (I had no chance to see the "new" SW rules yet, refering to LRB).

If a Star Player was a Rookie Player, who already collected Star Player Points and had his Skills & Traits preset by some mad designer, that would be a whole diffrent thing to discuss.

For Example, you could buy a Rookie Dragon Warrior with 0 SPP for 100K or a Veteran Dragon Warrior with 16 SPP, +1 ST and Dauntless for 140K. Its up to you to decide if its worth 40K and you cannot choose the first 2 Skills yourself. On the other hand, maybe you really need a ST4 Player.

Star Players should basically be trading money for Skills. Stars should be one valid option for Team Developement, not the ultimate solution.

Agentrock · Post by **Agentrock** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:58 pm

snotsngrots wrote:A) realize that star players ruin the game and do away with the whole lot of them

I agree...star players were such a pain in our league that we banned their use.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:26 pm

Toby,

Do you realize that stars are "peaked" and do not acquire SPPs? You're proposing starting players with a few skills you don't gety to choose in exchange for some cash but they'll never get any better.

I guess I just don't get it.

Gattolardo · Post by **Gattolardo** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:33 pm

What's more, I saw too much teams counting EXCLUSIVELY on Star Players for EVERYTHING, thus forfeiting their team experience....

Star Players make blocks, SP go to TD...
SP do all the passing...

Once the SP's are gone... puff... their tram is still an all-rooooookie !!!

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:37 pm

Stop tryng to change the good things that are in BB rules.
This one is fine!

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:01 pm

snotsngrots wrote:Toby,

Do you realize that stars are "peaked" and do not acquire SPPs? You're proposing starting players with a few skills you don't gety to choose in exchange for some cash but they'll never get any better.

I guess I just don't get it.

What you don't get is that THE COMPLETE STAR PLAYER RULES ARE INADEQUATE TO LRB. 3rd Edition Stars are peaked.

THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO INTRODUCE STARPLAYER RULES THAT ARE ACTUALLY GOOD FUN.

Rozman · Post by **Rozman** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:31 am

Toby wrote:First of All Star Player are the single coolest thing in the whole Game.

Err, I was under the impression that developing your own team was the coolest thing in the game?

I see your point though: the Star Players as currently written are entirely out of balance, which is probably why "everybody" hates them.

Sounds like you're proposing "weaker" Star Players, basically team members who start out with advances, and cost more than their normal Rookie cost.

I still don't care for the idea; the teams have built-in weaknesses for a reason. Allowing teams to purchase upgrades that neutralize their weaknesses leads to "Cookie Cutter Bowl." I'd certainly be buying up +Str and +Agi for my Humans to make them, well, less "Human."

You can currently try to balance out your team's weaknesses, but it usually takes doubles and/or high rolls, which limits the impact. It's significantly easier to get better at what your team is good at, which is the way the team lists were written.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 4:41 am

Toby wrote:
snotsngrots wrote:Toby,

Do you realize that stars are "peaked" and do not acquire SPPs? You're proposing starting players with a few skills you don't gety to choose in exchange for some cash but they'll never get any better.

I guess I just don't get it.
What you don't get is that THE COMPLETE STAR PLAYER RULES ARE INADEQUATE TO LRB. 3rd Edition Stars are peaked.

THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO INTRODUCE STARPLAYER RULES THAT ARE ACTUALLY GOOD FUN.

Frankie says relax.

I guess I really don't care that the rules are inadequate to the LRB. I don't care for them and don't care if they're not used. I don't want them to be ever be used. Secret Weapons are seperate from that last statement. Those are fun. ST6 and 7 players with AG upgrades just plain suck!

Make your Stars, use them to piss off your friends. I'd love to start players with an extra skill a stat upgrade too but it's going to screw up the game. Think twice before you do it.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:01 am

snotsngrots wrote:Frankie says relax.

^^

About Strength and Weaknesses of teams:

Possible Star Players would be bound to the same Rules that Apply to the rest of the team. Human Blitzers Stars could only get Strength and Agility Skills, and Teams still have the Position Limit of 4 Blitzers. Some Rules about creating the team like Rookie Teams may only hire Rookie Players, so when you start a new team you have to play a number of Games to be able to afford a 150K Star Player, and by the time maybe all of your other Blitzers have picked up some skills already.

The Star Players i have in mind are not ST7 AG7 MA10 Monsters but something that adds a little more options to Team Development.

Perfect Example is the High Elf Dragon Warrior formerly known as Prince Moranion. When you start a High Elf Team, you know you can buy up to 4 ST4 Players later in your teams Campaign (IF you can ever afford them!), so you can count on that and work out some strategy that takes advantage of that. On the Other Hand, the first 2 Skills you might use for those guys normaly are wasted. (Tackle, Diving Tackle ?)

General Rules for designing a Star should be Level 4, max 1 Trait, max 1 Characteristics increase, maybe something stupid to, like AG+1 on a Mummy.