The job to rewrite the rulebook has been posted

[Darkson]

They did send cease and desist letters, and still do. They were advised that legally that is what they had to do. Legally if they don't defend their IP, then they lose it.

However, it seemed very ad-hoc in the way they did it - forums seemed to be hit hardest. Certainly, this place (that was TalkBloodBowl then) got one for "using Blood Bowl in the URL", and yet other sites that had BB in the URL didn't receive one.

If GW had folded with the others in the 80's, many people would still be mourning their loss now.

I would have been one of them, but I wouldn't mourn now.

I don't know if Warhammer Fantasy is dying "not because people no longer want to play fantasy wargames, but because they've priced themselves out of too many gamer's budgets." I think if someone wants something, they'll pay for it.

I can only go by the local clubs I know of (my own, and a few others in local towns) but that is exactly what happened. The continuing price increases, coupled with GW's power-creep/"must buy to win units" killed the game completely, even before GW decided to kill off the game and replace it with AoS (which if I'm honest meant nothing to me as I've not played WFB since 3rd or 4th edition).
Replacing it as a massed battle game has been Mantic's Kings of War, which has a much lower cost involved, and, due to many requests from players, they bought in rules for races that don't/didn't officially exist in their world, like Verminkin and Desert Undead, and which will be allowable at their tournaments, even though they don't make the models themselves. There are many other Fantasy games out there, so if WFB wasn't making the money GW thought it should it wasn't because the market was dead, it was because they'd missed the market (which goes back to them not doing research ).

What I'm putting forward is, a way forward. You could just say, "Lets see what happens." "GW won't listen, so why bother." "I hope they don't destroy it with crazy rules." I can understand that, but if you don't fish, then you won't catch anything.

And someone (me in the past) has said that, and time and again GW have shown they don't listen and made more jaded players. The last time they did listen was with Specialist Games, and they shut that and it's forums at the drop of a hat.

[Deus Magi]

Potential power creep is my worry. how long before Dwarf Deathrollers fly? I know JTY's already does!

are you referring to the new soon to be released "Dwarven Gyroller-Copta?"

Ah, jaded. I think that comes with age. Along with mistrust, urinating at four in the morning and a lot more pills in the cupboard!

As for AOS killing it off, something had to be done with the rules. They were tied into a system that was so big, it was difficult to change. Personally I'd have seen the way as some sort of percentage used in the game, and the various factions worked out formulaically, using averages via a computer algorithm. So the different units all fitted and the factions were equalised somehow. Time will tell on AOS. They issued the rules for free, can't grumble with that.

Will they change? Well all big companies are very slow, like a behemoth, to move in a different direction. I just feel that it would be good for people to put down ideas and any direction for a re-dux to take.

[GalakStarscraper]

Does GW listen? Can they? Could they and then say thanks for those points made? if they did, then someone could say, that's my idea you've used, thus open themselves up for legal shenanigans and all the hassles that go with it.

Just to throw in my tuppance on this.

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame ... g-rulebook

The CRP is rated currently as the #124 best board game of all time

This rulebook was created solely from the work of non-GW employees who volunteered thousands of hours. Despite this ... there were no legal shenanigans or threats about ideas used. It was a great example of how it could work.

And GW legal came in at the end and forcible shut it all down and C&D'd and legal lettered the hell out of the people that created the rulebook for GW for no cause at all.

So it can work ... it did work ... and at the end GW made utter and complete asses of themselves and pissed all over the volunteers. Sad to say it took Cyanide to fix most of the utter nonsense that GW did to the latest version of the game and the work of all those volunteers.

[Deus Magi]

Well, no cause that's known to the general public. That's for sure. The reasons behind that may never be known. I do wonder if I'll be sat down at 86, because I can't get up and the TV will be showing a Storyville program on the games industry that once was with various information on what wen ton in the past, and why?

[GalakStarscraper]

The reasons behind that may never be known.

In this case because of folks in the inside we do know. Just a new head of legal who felt that she needed to show how the "new" GW legal was not going to tolerate any infraction no matter how small. She focused on what she thought she had the power to do and not the business outcomes of such actions.

This was not a reason unknown. This was one woman on the power trip from hell.

[Steam Ball]

Legally if they don't defend their IP, then they lose it.

Only for trademarks. OTOH they seem to be very aggressive about all their IP, even when it creates bad blood. They even went to trial, and they didn't get a total victory as they wanted but more like a tie and a demo of how things work.

[Deus Magi]

Well I do understand the IP defense thing. That phone call back in the early eighties must have been a "What just happened?" moment. Ironically the IP that they lost then was all the ideas freely submitted to them by readers of White Dwarf.

I just thought it would be a good idea to put up a thread that clearly and concisely had all possible amendments, changes or ideas, what people would like to see, new races old races updated, what's good about the game, what's appreciated, what's not appreciated. What connected products do people want (T-shirts, hats, badges, big foam hands), signs, billboards and any banners that could be photocopied. Fan miniatures, a new race, such as Daemons or Ghosts maybe. A change of rules layout and charts/tables better explanations, with an easier (bigger) index. Weaker teams assisted subtly, more skills for Halflings to bring them to balance, Ogre and Vampire made easier to field?

Perhaps someone will see the free rules out there, so change them so massively that people will side with any new rulebook, but then perhaps the rules will be free, like AOS, so they'll be close to what already exists, just with new artwork. I still feel that it would be good to have a closed thread with all the best ideas and options on it and to get it to someone inside the machine. As someone clearly said on this thread, it's Andy Hoare and he's a nice guy. Rather than the possibility of many people harranguing him and battering down his door, an effective single well worded contact from the community as a whole might be a good idea.

I know that if I was given a project, anything viable that assisted in that would be taken on board to some extent.

I take it absolutely no one here at all is of the same mind or opinion as I?

[Regash]

The idea is a good one.
Unfortunately, the community as a whole doesn't have that one opinion to pass on.
Read through all the rules and house rules thread, look at the discussions about the CRP+ from plasmoid...

But this is not a problem of just "our" community.
It's been like this in any kind of forum for whatever kind of community I've ever been in.

So, idea is great, it just won't happen.

[rolo]

I know that if I was given a project, anything viable that assisted in that would be taken on board to some extent.

I take it absolutely no one here at all is of the same mind or opinion as I?

If GW asked my advice, I'd tell them to keep the ruleset as unchanged as possible. They claim that they're a miniatures company; I'd tell them to make high quality teams and we'll buy them. Make fields which fit with existing minis, we'll buy them. Make minis which fit on existing fields, we'll buy them. Price them competitively and we'll buy even more.

Don't repeat the mistakes you've made in the past, I'd say. You changed the rules of Warhammer too much, and made too much of what I'd already bought useless. I stopped playing Warhammer. You changed the rules of 40k too much, and made what I'd already bought useless. I stopped playing 40k. Don't change the rules of Blood Bowl too much, don't make what I already have obsolete.

Deus Magi, are you a GW marketing shill? You kind of talk like one. I'd be happy if someone from GW read these forums and realized how worried we are that they'll screw it up. Engaging with the community would actually be a massive step forward for GW. But I've been burned by them before. So I'll wait until the boxed set is released, I'll quickly find out how much has changed, and only then will I decide what to buy. I've been holding off on buying an orc team for a while, because I don't like many of the third party orcs offered. So let's say I'm watching with interest, but also with some worry.

[Deus Magi]

In answer to Regash, I'm actually feeling quite positive about this. Odd, as I've been very jaded myself over the way life has treated me.

In answer to rolo, A shill? No. Not that what people say on web forums counts for much sometimes. You never know who you talk to, and I've always personally seen them as not real people. People that are gone instantly, and who don't really exist in my eyes, compared to the real person who I barely spoke to at the checkout at Asda's when I paid for my food this week.

A shill? Now, many would take that as an insult,. I used to practise the art, and read up on the Monte routine. A Shill,.... someone who's task is to decoy others into participating, such as I a confidence game. A person who publicizes/praises something, or someone for their own self-interest, personal profit, gain, or those of their associates. To slyly advertise or promote (a product or action) as would a huckster or for a hustle.

A Shill, I kind of talk like one?

Whenever I've written on web forums, I've always put forward consistent, well worded thoughts or points, that have body to them. If they sound like a good sell, then I'm either a good Shill, or something inside you is saying, "buy that!" Now that's sales for ya, "Roll up, roll up. It's a steal!"

So actually, yes I am a Shill. By taking my unpaid time to promote the product (future product) for my own personal gain (as I wish to play the game), and the Bloodbowl communities gain, then in a sense, I could be referred to as a shill. Although in reality the term is only really used when the person or persons are acting covertly.

I can see I'm swimming against the tide here, perhaps that's why you relate to me in this manner? But then, as I said, I'm an untrusting person myself. If I had just joined and was a single poster, then I could see why I'd be pinging on the radar! I would say to read my older posts, but I haven't been as active on this forum as others I've been involved in, or had the knowledge base to be able to do so. But looking you'll see I've been around since before GW's notice that the Specialist games will be put back out there. I am not affiliated with GW in any way, although I do sell GW product. I won't be selling any new stuff that may come out, as they wouldn't touch me with a sh!88ie stick. I only have the old stuff, that was more my era, but that's me in a nutshell. I just thought perhaps words might influence, as they sometimes can. Severe action usually brings greater results, so if I were to run into their offices strapped with a vest full of Lead miniatures and explosives screaming "Those 3rd edition sculpts were awful!" I'd probably get a result, maybe 10 to 20 years, but hey ho!

A few good points you raise. I'll have to start putting something together. Perhaps a separate group of threads. I think the first one should be on possibilities of new teams. Why not? I'll do that now.

[Darkson]

I take it absolutely no one here at all is of the same mind or opinion as I?

It's more a case of we've been here before and it's got to the point where some/many have little trust left in GW so are firmly in the "wait & see" camp.

Have they changed? Maybe, maybe not, but it's up to them to show it, not up to gamers to chase after them to see. Nowadays there are many many games out there by companies that give a damn about their players, so regardless of BB being my favourite game (still) I'm not going to hang around begging at GW in the hope they acknowledge us.

[Deus Magi]

Fair play, but hopefully there are some of the newer players like me, who are in the "maybe" camp, but I totally see where you are coming from.

[Madsherman]

Looks to me like the pitch is one or two squares shorter and each square is 32mm´, but the pic quality is very low.

No, scratch that. There are 13 on each half

[straume]

First(?) confirmation of actual new rules (from the Facebook-page):

Q": "Why do you need to test something that has had millions of hours of play testing already?"

A: Blood Bowl Its not just about changing rules, Danny, there's new rules to test too! - Jim

[rolo]

The board looks exactly like the original board and probably is one. The figures look normal sized.

And more importantly, their play testers like playing end zone to end zone and not side-to-side. And their tables are the same size as everyone else's, so a larger board won't fit as well