Blood Bowl back at Warhammer World

[innerdemon]

Thanks Mike!

[Glowworm]

I can understand people reserving judgment. I can understand folks having frustrations from how things have been handled in the past, but gleefully wanting this to fail seems like a pretty poor attitude to me.

+1

[frogboy]

I can understand people reserving judgment. I can understand folks having frustrations from how things have been handled in the past, but gleefully wanting this to fail seems like a pretty poor attitude to me.

+1

+2

[sann0638]

+3.

Are we going for a Fibonacci or arithmetic sequence?

[longfang]

Sad to see so much negativity. Let them run the event how they want , it doesn't have to be the same old ultra competitive rule set. Games workshops involvement in bloodbowl and bloodbowl back in the shops will hopefully bring in a new generation of players.
Stop the panic, they have lost control of the game and won't be able to shut down the 3rd party industry producing BB accessories.

[Waldorf28]

Couldn't agree more.

+5

[spubbbba]

Sad to see so much negativity. Let them run the event how they want , it doesn't have to be the same old ultra competitive rule set. Games workshops involvement in bloodbowl and bloodbowl back in the shops will hopefully bring in a new generation of players.
Stop the panic, they have lost control of the game and won't be able to shut down the 3rd party industry producing BB accessories.

True, a lot of gamers out there are not really aware of the Blood Bowl community. We saw that with the Cyanide game as quite a few people were oblivious that it existed as a board game beforehand or remembered it back in the 2nd and 3rd edition days.

The big tournament in Nottingham always attracts a lot of players who are not part of the regular tabletop tourney scene, so it can be a way to get some much needed new blood. This is a good chance to keep the game going strong and it does look like they have actually listened to feedback for once which is a positive step.

Even GW themselves have always said that the hobby is what you make of it, though of course they can insist on using their models and rules in their venues.

[Regash]

Sad to see so much negativity. Let them run the event how they want , it doesn't have to be the same old ultra competitive rule set. Games workshops involvement in bloodbowl and bloodbowl back in the shops will hopefully bring in a new generation of players.
Stop the panic, they have lost control of the game and won't be able to shut down the 3rd party industry producing BB accessories.

Well, I do not wholeheartedly agree with you here.
Yes, it's their tournament and yes, they should run it as they want.
But I'm a bit scared about the rule set. They might change the rules to the better, that is true.
But if they go the AOS route or make to many changes, this might evolve into a game that I don't like anymore. And that would mean that all these new players are people I won't be able to play with as they use rules I hate and vice versa.
That is why I'm sceptic and I choose to express my concerns.

They won't shut down the 3rd party miniature makers, no doubt about that.
But they will stop people, who only had the chance to buy 3rd party teams as the originals are OOP, going to "official" GW tournaments. And that is a sad fact.
Doesn't anyone else have the feeling our community is being split up again and again?
There are the tabletoppers, there are the Cyanide players (And even those are split up into BB1 and BB2 players!), there are FUMBBL players and everyone is using different rules. Should we now split up into newcomers and veterans? With all these people cooking their own soup in the blood bowl kitchen, it all gets completely messed up and confusing. And that is not a good thing.

[Regash]

Team lists are up for download.

I haven't really checked them all, but they seem to be the normal team setups, except for the special skill improvement thing for the tournament.
And some of the names changed, i. e. the Ulfwerener is now a Norse Werewolf.
Slann, Chaos Pact and Underworld are NOT in the list!

Halflings are in the list twice!

[nonumber]

Well, I do not wholeheartedly agree with you here.
Yes, it's their tournament and yes, they should run it as they want.
But I'm a bit scared about the rule set. They might change the rules to the better, that is true.
But if they go the AOS route or make to many changes, this might evolve into a game that I don't like anymore. And that would mean that all these new players are people I won't be able to play with as they use rules I hate and vice versa.
That is why I'm sceptic and I choose to express my concerns.

They won't shut down the 3rd party miniature makers, no doubt about that.
But they will stop people, who only had the chance to buy 3rd party teams as the originals are OOP, going to "official" GW tournaments. And that is a sad fact.
Doesn't anyone else have the feeling our community is being split up again and again?
There are the tabletoppers, there are the Cyanide players (And even those are split up into BB1 and BB2 players!), there are FUMBBL players and everyone is using different rules. Should we now split up into newcomers and veterans? With all these people cooking their own soup in the blood bowl kitchen, it all gets completely messed up and confusing. And that is not a good thing.

I don't really understand what you mean by that.

You're describing the same game being played in different formats. I play tabletop and dabble in fumbbl. You're describing some bizarre absolute where playing Cyanide renders you unable to play a tabletop tournament.

This isn't like going to a monopoly tournament and they're using cluedo rules. I have yet to see anything concrete that the current LRB we use on the tournament scene, the fumbbl rules, Cyanide 1 or 2 are vastly different. Oh some vague difference in league progression which is blown out of proportion. ARE ORC BLITZERS 80K OR 90?!?! IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT GAME!!! I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REAL ANYMORE!!!!

The mechanics of the game are identical and will remain that way. I'm not going to lose my s*** if GW decide zombies need to be movement 3.

I'm still going to be playing blood bowl, we all are. Three completely new teams get introduced by Galak and no one bats an eye, GW change the way players age in league and everybody loses their mind.

[DinoTitanedition]

But I'm a bit scared about the rule set. They might change the rules to the better, that is true.
But if they go the AOS route or make to many changes, this might evolve into a game that I don't like anymore.

See, this is where oppinions differ so much. I for myself do like AoS a lot. I do not fancy the background, I like the old one better and play my games according to the old background, but systemwise it`s a lot less rulediscussion, a lot less people who are just out for the win, the game itself works a lot faster and it finally pays off to put some effort into your minis (since you can see them all pretty well) and you see a lot more nicely painted armys (since you don`t need sheer masses of miniatures there is a lot more time to spend some effort on them and make more out of your hobby).

Blood Bowl has a lot of these factors already, but "the community" consists largely out of competitve....or rather say "win-oriented" players instead of purely fun oriented ones and, from my point of view, this hurts the game a lot more than a new ruleset. I want to give you an example - I am participating in a league in Mainz at the moment, consisting of 12 coaches. Aside from me, there is one more new member in the league, hailing from Frankfurt, a city nearby. I usually do not play overly competitive, since I tend to do some crazy stuff on the field when it isn`t really neccessary, but after the first run I already realised, that the players, even with well skilled teams, rather play it safe relying on nothing else but the usual cage tactic.

The new guy, Kako K. (known from Tabletopwelt.de and most famous for his great Bretonnian team conversion), is also a less competitive playing style of player, but guess how much fun he has with the current ruleset? He`s loosing one game after another, pointing out that loosing teams are caught in a downwards spiral in a league, especially since the winning team gets more money than the loosing team (wich would need it, to stay in the race), cannot replace injuries and are mostly chanceless against cagegrinders with a new team.

I also had to take a lot of critics, as most german BBlers seem to be rather conservative and lack the want of trying out something new (might say that for pretty big part of "the community"). At least I had that feeling when I suggested to keep the league at a rather small amount of games per season (max. of ten for every team), so new players can join the league if they want. Keeping your team longer than a season is also a hot discussion at the moment, since some teams just need time to develop, before they become better at what they so. Using special play cards is rarely to be seen, since most people know "that one ruleset" and won`t learn anything new. Anyways, back to the topic - so I do support all these things, and I always do support the effort for a most exciting game, but in a league with mostly competitve players I`d end up with nothing else than delivering permanent SSP to other teams and get smashed pretty much every game. Doesn`t feel like much fun, does it?

So I told myself, okay, I`ll try that cage thingy (I have to admit, eve thou playing orcs, until this season I was never good at building a cage) and I`ll try to play a little less funoriented, but more winoriented. This also means no gentlemans agrrement, what strangely a lot of people seem to have in a game, since they don`t want to lose their players, that hog so many SSP (but on the other hand cannot accept that other teams are supposed to do it as well according to the rules).
Now what I do in the league currently is to use every block possible. I set up blocking chains, where a push result will end up in another block opportunity and I skill my players with mighty blow before I skill them with anything else. As long as I am up one player on the roster, I will also keep fouling pretty much every play, decimating the opposing team as much as possible. Even in the last play of the game, if I am leading by one, I will surely execute every possible block as long as there is a reroll left, or I have a 2:1 block with the skill block at my hand, and foul the most fragile/most expensive player, to injure him. If it reduces one of his stats, even better.

Now one can tell me "That isn`t neccessary", hell yeah, if you play in a league it is. At least when you`re winoriented, because it assures that your opponent, even if leading the board, will have trouble the upcoming games, which might result in a better play-off positioning for yourself.

Again, a long explanaition to clarify the meaning - this onedimensional gaming with a very conservative playstyle quickly lead to at least some of the league memers rethinking their playstyle. Personally I appreciate that, but why did it have to happen like this? A new ruleset would be the same thing, only on a larger scale and honestly, "the community" needs it. I`m not saying that the ruleset has to be redone entirely, the core rules are pretty much perfect in my opinion, but past page 15 (I`m not sure, but I belive the extra rules start somewhere there) a lot of work has to be done to make this game better for a wider community and to take the overly competitive factor out of the game or at least weaken it a little. Therefore I`d say, making the win not the most important thing in the tournament is the right way to go at it.

[lunchmoney]

...Blood Bowl has a lot of these factors already, but "the community" consists largely out of competitve....or rather say "win-oriented" players instead of purely fun oriented ones ...

Then you are hanging out with the wrong crowd.
The people I socialise with like to win, yes (who doesn't?), but having fun and spending time with friends is the first reason we go and spend a weekend away from home.

[Regash]

Three completely new teams get introduced by Galak and no one bats an eye, GW change the way players age in league and everybody loses their mind.

Well, I'm not a fan of those three new teams.
Why?
Because they weren't mentioned in any official rule set published by GW.
(And I still don't know why the NAF accepted those for tournaments while Brets and Khorne are still kind of banned.)
But my post was not about changes, it was about the community being split up.
BB1 and BB2 don't really use the same rules as the board games (think of mandatory skills in the first place and the aging rules in bb2) and, as far as I know, FUMBBL has even more changes, at least in the use of unofficial teams.

But all this means that people, who are using different platforms, can't simply come together to play a game of BB because you'd first have to agree on what rule set to use.
And this can't be in the interest of a game. And no, I don't like house rules either.

"the community" consists largely out of competitve....or rather say "win-oriented" players

But that is the fault of the players, not the rules. You can play every game for fun or like a munchkin.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with what I've said: The community is being split up by two or more different rule sets, how tiny the changes might seem.

I really don't care about rule changes. I'll play any game as long as it is fun. If the rule changes make it no fun anymore, I'll stop playing.
You missing out on fun because of winoriented players doesn't make the game a bad game.
It means you're playing with the wrong guys, well, at least the wrong guys for you.
I've been in two leagues that broke to pieces because of exactly that: Half of them want to kick your butt so bad, you'll need another team and the other half shake your hands and smile even losing to halflings.
But that is about attitude, not about rules or changes to them.

[DinoTitanedition]

Then you are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

That`s absolutely possible, but it`s not like I have much of a choice if I want to play the boardgameversion of the game. In Germany there isn`t as many players as in the UK and if there is, somehow everyone tries do his own thing. Don`t know if that`s a german habit, but I`m not denying it either

But all this means that people, who are using different platforms, can't simply come together to play a game of BB because you'd first have to agree on what rule set to use.

And this is proof, that it`s not the rules dividing the comunity, but that the community is already divided. What else could explain that people are not ready to sit down for a few minutes and choose the ruleset by wich they go.

I believe in this case, even if the official rules might change for the worse, it will bring one generally accepted ruleset, by which everyone will mostly play.

I'll play any game as long as it is fun. If the rule changes make it no fun anymore, I'll stop playing.

Yeah, but see....that`s your decision. The rules don`t say "If Regash doesn`t like it, he shall not play.". In my experience some games need time to grow sympathy. With me it was exactly like that with Blood Bowl. I started playing because it was fantasy and football. Two things I like. It took me quite a while until I actually fully understood the rules. They are not exactly "beginner-friendly".

[Darkson]

...Blood Bowl has a lot of these factors already, but "the community" consists largely out of competitve....or rather say "win-oriented" players instead of purely fun oriented ones ...

Then you are hanging out with the wrong crowd.
The people I socialise with like to win, yes (who doesn't?), but having fun and spending time with friends is the first reason we go and spend a weekend away from home.

+ Lots.