Yet another try for a new Wild Animal

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:38 pm

The current WA still bothers me. WA-traps is too far from vanilla BB for me. I borrowed Plasmoids old suggestion and added two small limitations:

Wild Animal
The player has a nasty tendency to get a bit carried away during a match, and may never declare other actions than Block and Blitz. Wild Animals don't let go of their enemys very easily, and may never make moves that would force them to roll for dodge. In addition, if a standing Wild Animal is adjacent to a standing player from the opposing team then they may not move before making a block even when blitzing.

Wild Animals have a tendency to lash out at anything that moves. The Tackle Zone of a Wild Animal is considered an enemy tackle zone by both teams. This prevents all players in a WA tackle zone, friends or foes, from giving assists. Last but not least, Wild Animals can never receive assists when they Block or Foul; they are simply too out of control for other players to help them out.

Note that this means that a prone Wild Animal must Blitz to stand up. It also effectively reduces the possibilities to use WA players to block key players.

What I like about this is that the opponent team very easily can distract the WA - though this can be a dangerous task. The WA in his turn will often distract his own team by using up blitzes.

Micke

PS. Old discussion here:
viewtopic.php?t=1672&highlight=wild+animal
viewtopic.php?t=1577&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Valen · Post by **Valen** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:43 pm

I honestly think that the current WA skill is fine as it is!

MistWraith · Post by **MistWraith** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:07 pm

I do not like it. This is much more of a neg trait than bone headed or realy stupid.

I especialy do not like the fact that he can never take another action than block or blitz. My minotaur has had the ball scatter onto him many times and caught it. He then hands it off to a hobgobolin or bull centaur, because with is traits you can never be shure he will be able to score.

Also, the fact that both teams count his TZ as an opposing one is bad, very bad.

We need to fix WA, not make it even worse.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:37 pm

MistWraith wrote:We need to fix WA, not make it even worse.

"We need to fix WA"?

Well, as far as the statistics in the fumbbl-league are concerned, about 50% of the top 10 blockers (counting casualities) are Minotaurs already. Is it really necessary to make that number 100%?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:47 pm

Wild Animal is quite bad as it is, no need to go making it much worse.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:52 pm

Ugh. I still refuse to use WA's because they're too often a detriment to the rest of my team. I know that Milo was trying out Skaven in part to decide for himself whether it is too restrictive.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:08 pm

MistWraith wrote:This is much more of a neg trait than bone headed or realy stupid.

I'm not trying to make it either better or worse, just different. To me, the most important thing is to get rid of these WA-traps. I'm open to any suggestion that fixes this - the reason I added limitations to Plasmoids original idea is that it was critisized for not being negative enough.

Wild Animal is, however, supposed to be worse than Really Stupid as far as I know.

Micke

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:12 pm

WAs probably suffer against teams that have plenty of strength themselves... but a team that has no big guy, say dark elf or high elf, only has the choice of standing four guys next to the WA to take advantage of his negative trait. This only leaves 7 to try to deal with everyone else in the case that the WA is lucky.

Once your WA has Block (and Tackle), this strategy isn't likely to help and you find that the negative trait has little effect... as long as neither die comes up Skull (which will be the case most of the time) no turnover is suffered and the other 10 players on the pitch can easily overwhelm the 7 remaining elves.

I agree that WA might be a problem when there is a treeman available for example, but I see him as a definite plus when playing against dark or high elves.

Martyn

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:20 pm

Skummy wrote:Ugh. I still refuse to use WA's because they're too often a detriment to the rest of my team. I know that Milo was trying out Skaven in part to decide for himself whether it is too restrictive.

I still have been. My Skaven team has been doing well, though usually through no fault of my Rat Ogre. I can easily think of a half dozen times over the last half dozen games he's played where he prevented me from scoring a touchdown (or from stopping one.)

Wild Animals are very much a double-edged sword. On many drives, I simply leave him in the reserves box, because I can't afford the possibility of failure he brings with him.

So far, I consider the current Wild Animal to be very well balanced.

Milo

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:34 pm

Milo: On many drives, I simply leave him in the reserves box, because I can't afford the possibility of failure he brings with him.

Milo: So far, I consider the current Wild Animal to be very well balanced.

I'm having difficulty reconciling those two statements. Is Wild Animal really intended to be so bad that leaving 13+ points of team rating off the pitch is your best choice?

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:06 pm

Well, it depends. There are times when I can afford to play a little faster and looser and the Rat Ogre is definitely on the fields at those times. But if I'm in a close game and CANNOT afford to make any mistakes (say, down by one with two turns left), you betcha he stays in the pen.

In several games I've had to make a bad block with him and gone down, ending a turn early. I try to protect him from himself, but that's not always possible. On at least one occasion, I was in scoring position, knocked the ball free, and then had it scatter to the Rat Ogre and be caught. Unfortunately, he was adjacent to an enemy player, so I had to take a Block with him instead of being able to hand it off to the Runner in scoring position. That cost me a tie instead of a win.

I tend to field him more in the first half, when I know I have time to make up for any mistakes he might make.

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:07 pm

I played a game against Skaven a few weeks ago where I was deliberately using the "gang up on the Rat Ogre to freeze his team" tactic to great effect. The RO wasn't on the line and was reasonably protected, but I got a couple of Black orcs on him.

Its not that wild animal is bad - its just BORING.

I want the "on a roll of one he moves like a fanatic, blocking whoever he meets on the way. No assists." rule in. Characterful and fun.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:09 pm

The only issue i have with Wild animal is the enforced first move before doing anything else. I would prefer when activated then the WA must make a block if in an opponents TZ, whether it be first move or last.

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:16 pm

Thadrin wrote:I played a game against Skaven a few weeks ago where I was deliberately using the "gang up on the Rat Ogre to freeze his team" tactic to great effect. The RO wasn't on the line and was reasonably protected, but I got a couple of Black orcs on him.

A smart coach won't let you do that more than once, if that. And once they take a bad block, they'll wisely stay on the ground to ensure it doesn't happen again. If my Rat Ogre is tying up three or four of your players, I'm not going to complain about that.

I usually set my Rat Ogre up about eight squares deep on defense and use him as a really nasty safety.

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:17 pm

McDeth wrote:The only issue i have with Wild animal is the enforced first move before doing anything else. I would prefer when activated then the WA must make a block if in an opponents TZ, whether it be first move or last.

If you didn't have to move him first, it would be too easy to negate the bad aspects by moving other players to cancel assists, block people away from the Wild Animal, etc.

Milo