BB2 Full listof changes to crp

[GalakStarscraper]

Wait ... or did you try and do this?

First 150k of your treasury doesn't count towards TV UNLESS you spend it on inducements?

Seriously do not think that you can write that up in less words than the original bank rules as a change to how the rulebook would read. Could be wrong. I'm not sure how you write it up so that you say the amount above 150k counts toward TV no matter what but any amount of your treasury of 150k or less only counts toward TV if spent on inducements.

I think I understand it now. But just struggle to see why this is thought of as an "easier" concept to understand. Would love to see it actually written up in rulebook format.

And it still has no place in a league with Aging in place. And it is very sad Martin if you tried to help them with this and then completely botched the implementation by making the Underdog choose first because unfortunately this change has your name on it. Thats the sucky part of doing rules work on a game.

[sann0638]

Info I'm now getting (which may be wrong) is that the Home team chooses first. Whatever that means.

I'm mightily confused by the last 7 pages. And I'm quite bright...

[Jimmy Fantastic]

The info I am getting is that it wouldn't matter who did inducements first as Cyanide have botched the implementation anyway heh.

[plasmoid]

Hi Galak,
what I meant was simply:
The CRP that everyone has contains the Petty Cash rule. And it has for 5 years.
Only thing that needs to change is under Petty Cash it would have to say, "any Cash in your treasury above 150K must be added to petty Cash".

If they went with "your" version, they'd have to rewrite the post game sequence, remove Petty Cash from the Pre-game sequence. Possibly some stuff in SE's as well...
That's quite the bigger change. Certainly a bigger change to those used to the Petty Cash rule - or who even like the Petty Cash rule.

I can only assume they let underdog go first because that's how the Petty Cash rule does it already? And Because the Underdog could make himself the overdog, turning Things around. But that's all about the Petty Cash rule.

That said - I didn't know they would add it. Nor why they would add it alongside aging. Both were a complete surprise to me.
In fact, as you may know, when last thing I said was that using (any of) Plasmoids CRP+ would not be good for sales to TT players.
Nor that they would muck it up (if they did??). They certainly seem to not be adding Journeymen in the postgame, which really muddies the TV issue.

One thing though:
I really have no idea how harsh their ageing rules are.
I totally agree that Bank does not go well with any rules where (like in the old days) a player could age and "die" after his first game.
If it takes 100 games to age, then I'm not sure there is a problem.
I really can't tell.

Cheers
Martin

[Jimmy Fantastic]

I can only assume they let underdog go first because that's how the Petty Cash rule does it already? And Because the Underdog could make himself the overdog, turning Things around. But that's all about the Petty Cash rule.

Overdog transfers petty cash first in crp.

[garion]

I'm with Jimmy and galak here. In both respects , 1st of all cyanide have cocked whatever they were trying up anyway, so plasmoids part in it was somewhat mooted .

However it seems plasmoid has changed the bank rule to encorporate the most confusing aspect of petty cash which is using your money to override however much you were due to get in inducement money. Which differs from the original rule.

I am guessing during all the bretonnia stuff (yuck) and during alpha testing they have consulted with plasmoid about banks implementation and tried to emulate his rule, but have failed because they're accidentally making underdog chose inducements first after which tv leader can react.

This is all a complete mess, which doesn't suprise me tbh, if cyanide have proven anything over the years it's their incompetence and lack of understanding of the game and rules. It seems like they have just chucked a bunch of random stuff in the game with little thought of the repercussions. Eg bank aging and spirraling expenses plus no nerf to pile on and allowing pile on with fouls is going to lead to so many destroyed teams retiring.

Th 2nd issue here is, admit it or not ; plasmoud has been with this game since alpha and a number of crp+ aspects have been included in their game. Orcs being repriced, human catchers gaining +av , ogres being cheapened , bretonnians , and an attempt at plasmoids bank. Which as I said earlier worries me about what else they will try and push in this version, are we gonna see stupid fend wardancers and break tackle TGs. I just hope the naf reject what cyanide are doing here.

I'm all for change, but not like this......

Peace...

[GalakStarscraper]

Page 28:
"The team with the highest team value must declare how much gold he is transferring into petty ash first."

Okay so if I understand correct this is what you proposed. By the way this is why when I was working on the CRP I always posted the actual rule text to forums instead of describing how it works ... it creates the baseline to understand for all parties.

PRE-MATCH SEQUENCE OF PLAY
2. Transfer Gold from Treasury to Petty Cash.
Both teams at this point must transfer any gold pieces from their team treasury above 150,000 into petty cash. Each player may also transfer addition gold pieces from their treasury balance of 150,000 or less to petty cash if they wish. Petty cash may be used during the current match to purchase inducements and adds directly to the team value of the team for this match. The team with the highest team value must declare how much gold he is transferring into petty cash first.

I could be wrong (and feel free to tell me if I am) ... but did you actually send them your concept above typed out like that? If not .... I can see how the change could get confused by a team that easily confuses things. Not blaming you ... just saying my experience with Cyanide was that they really needed things spelled out.

Now that I have it typed out ... I understand what you were going for. Too bad they implemented it wrong.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Yeah, that is how I understood Plasmoid's rule. Thus combining the confusing "no topping up" aspect of Petty Cash with the needlessly restrictive nature of the bank.
Not to mention the problems this causes with TV matchmaking.

[dode74]

I was also in the alpha. I can confirm that plasmoid did say that Cyanide would likely be upsetting a number of people if they introduced anything from his rules, and to Cyanide's credit they did listen to some of the feedback - the things they were planning on introducing could have been horrendous.

That said, from the point at which they said they were going to introduce the bank I was, and I imagine a lot of others in the alpha were, under the impression that the text from Galak on the Cyanide forums was the baseline, to the point that I posted a link to it in the Cyanide forums. Nobody corrected this misapprehension.

[Vanguard]

From what I've read here:

• Galak's original Bank rule separated cash into 'Bank' and 'Treasury' with the latter counting towards TV.
• CRP separated cash into 'Treasury' and 'Petty Cash' with the latter counting towards TV.
• Plasmoid attempted to streamline the Bank Rule by rewriting it for 'Bank' and 'Petty Cash' with the latter counting towards TV. This is mostly cosmetic to fit the terminology coaches were familiar with from CRP.

Additionally:

• No one seems to be able to confirm exactly what Cyanide have implemented. Presumably they have not produced any form of rule book so we're trying to figure it out from the game.
• Regardless of what they have tried to implement and what they have actually implemented it was all Plasmoid's fault.

[fanglord13]

The bank rule in any form is unnecessary complication to a simple and effective team management system.

So glad I've not bought the new game and until all this is made optional, I'm unlikely ever to

[dode74]

From what I've read here:

• Galak's original Bank rule separated cash into 'Bank' and 'Treasury' with the latter counting towards TV.
• CRP separated cash into 'Treasury' and 'Petty Cash' with the latter counting towards TV.
• Plasmoid attempted to streamline the Bank Rule by rewriting it for 'Bank' and 'Petty Cash' with the latter counting towards TV. This is mostly cosmetic to fit the terminology coaches were familiar with from CRP.

The main difference between Martin's bank and the real bank is that you get to transfer to treasury in pre match with Martin's version.

[garion]

I was also in the alpha. I can confirm that plasmoid did say that Cyanide would likely be upsetting a number of people if they introduced anything from his rules, and to Cyanide's credit they did listen to some of the feedback - the things they were planning on introducing could have been horrendous.

Good to know. As I said in my previous post anything anyone tried to get in or tried to stop getting put in the game was mooted by cyanides incompetence any way.the fact they still don't understand journeyman says it all really.

I can't believe they expect people to pay for this game that is only at alpha testing level really.

[dode74]

I can't believe they expect people to pay for this game that is only at alpha testing level really.

To be fair, this seems like an Early Access game. It's certainly way past an alpha. You should have seen the client we were working with during the alpha!

[Vanguard]

From what I've read here:

• Galak's original Bank rule separated cash into 'Bank' and 'Treasury' with the latter counting towards TV.
• CRP separated cash into 'Treasury' and 'Petty Cash' with the latter counting towards TV.
• Plasmoid attempted to streamline the Bank Rule by rewriting it for 'Bank' and 'Petty Cash' with the latter counting towards TV. This is mostly cosmetic to fit the terminology coaches were familiar with from CRP.

The main difference between Martin's bank and the real bank is that you get to transfer to treasury in pre match with Martin's version.

Yes, hence why I said mostly. Now I may be projecting my own experiences here, but (outside of FUMBBL which rigidly controls the process) every tabletop league I've played in has always blurred the lines between post and pre game sequences. Typically coaches get as far as step 4 (winnings, MVP, SPP, improvement rolls and fan factor) after a match and then everything else is sorted at some point before the next match or during the pre-match sequence.
That's why, to me, Martin's change in process didn't seem to have any 'real' impact in game terms. I freely admit that that is not how the rules are written, but we should also take account of how people actually play. I'd be interested to see if other leagues run much stricter processes.

Just as a similar example, the way the rules are written, modifiers are added to the dice roll which is then compared to the target number from the Agility Chart. However, in practice, most (all?) coaches will recalculate the target number prior to rolling. Human nature, we want to know the outcome as soon as we see the roll, not have to work it out. However, explaining to a new coach that a -1 modifier actually increases the target number is counter intuitive.