SPP for completions, point of contentio

[Sceadeau]

Verbatim from LRB:

"Completions (COMP): A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1 Star Player point. An accurate pass is called a
‘completion’ or complete pass."

Until yesterday, I had believed that if you threw the ball accurately, thatas long as it somehow ended up in your hands at the end of that pass action, you got a SPP.

However, upon further inspection, I can't say definitively it is this way.

From LRB, under passing:

"If the final modified score equals or beats the required roll, then the player succeeds in catching the ball....If the dice roll is less than the required total, then the player drops the ball which will bounce (see Bouncing Balls, below)"

It was argued that it stops being an "accurate pass" that is caught after he first scatter roll, but instead a "bouncing ball", thereby removing the SPP from the action.

Basically, the questios is does "A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player" refer to the "accurate pass" being caught, or the ball being caught? And why.

(also, this wouldn't be bad to add to the hotlist, cleaning up the wording in this SPP, or making it more intuitive)

Thanks,

Sceadeau

[Zombie]

If you make an accurate pass, and someone on your team catches the ball (catching a boucing ball is still a catch), then you've got the completion.

[Sceadeau]

Yeah, I've always seen it ruled that way, but the text isn't _thoroughly_ clear that by just catching the ball is enough. Using rules of grammar, catch refers to catching the accurate pass.

It's not my point of view, so I can't argue it as well as others could. Just wondering why we assume catch = catch ball and not catch = catch accurate pass.

And even if it meant catch = catch accurate pass, would catching a bouncing ball be the same thing? Grammatically speaking, catch = catch accurate pass, so THIS would be the point that would have to be proved within the rules.

[Sushé Wakka]

Well, we always ruled that you have to Catch the pass, not the ball... Mainly because if i get in the "rules lawyer mood" I get my ass kicked out of the room...

[Shadow_Dragon]

You clearly only get teh point if you catch the pass, what achievemnt is there in catching a bouncing ball and if so do you give the completion to the originaly thrower or the bumbling fumbler or the guy who catches it, the rules seem fairly clear to me only on a completed pass!

That's my take!

[Grumbledook]

Yes but the turnover rules say that a failed pass is a turnover, but its not counted as failed until the ball finally comes to rest it can bounce go out of bounds get thrown back in and caught and its still counted as the pass not failing :p

[Zombie]

You clearly only get teh point if you catch the pass, what achievemnt is there in catching a bouncing ball and if so do you give the completion to the originaly thrower or the bumbling fumbler or the guy who catches it, the rules seem fairly clear to me only on a completed pass!

That's my take!

How does the thrower not merit a completion? He threw an accurate pass to his teammate. It ain't his fault if the teammate is too dumb to catch it.

In real football, a completition is given as long as the ball is eventually caught, it doesn't matter if it were accurate or if it hit an opponent first.

[Sceadeau]

Yes but the turnover rules say that a failed pass is a turnover, but its not counted as failed until the ball finally comes to rest it can bounce go out of bounds get thrown back in and caught and its still counted as the pass not failing :p

Actually Grum, the turnover rule says no such thing.

LRB:

"3. The ball is passed and not caught by a player from the moving team"

This is actually different than the wording for a SPP. The SPP says an accurate pass is caught, this says the ball is caught. Those are distinctly different. At the very least, would like to see this in Galak's hotlist

[Shadow_Dragon]

I believe the fact that if the reciever fails to catch the ball then the pass itself is broken!

I did read the rules, they may not be clear but, does it make sense that someone dropping the ball can still be rewarded, he failed to catch the pass, if an accurate pass was so easy to catch then he wouldn't need to roll the fact they do need to roll implys the pass, despite it's accuracy is still imperfect, as all passes are in real life, that's why we usually hand scissors to people, the catch is PART of the pass, grabbing a bouncing ball isn't! IMO!

Why get a Star player point for incompetence!

[Zombie]

Why get a Star player point for incompetence!

The only one getting an SPP is the thrower, and if the pass was accurate (i.e. right on target), you can't ask him to be more competent than this.

[Grumbledook]

I was referring to the turnovers section in the throwing rules on page 14 of the lrb2

[Darkson]

I'm sure I asked this as one of my earlier posts, and it was confirmed that it's only a completion if the pass was accurate (ie you pass the Pass roll) and the intended receiver catches it (ie passes the Catch roll). If the ball is dropped but finally comes back to the original receiver it's not a completion.

I'll see if I can find a link to the thread.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Why get a Star player point for incompetence!

The only one getting an SPP is the thrower, and if the pass was accurate (i.e. right on target), you can't ask him to be more competent than this.

What's to stop him from passing an accurate pass to an empty square then? Free spp's no bad thing right? Makes just as much sense too!

[Zombie]

Someone in your team (anyone will do, but someone still) has to catch the ball. In the NFL and the CFL, even if the ball went all wrong and touched a few players, as long as someone in your team catches it, it's a completion.

[Skummy]

Darkson: Please let me know if you can find that link. It's something that needs clarification in the rulebook. I was looking for it just the other day, and couldn't find evidence to the contrary.