Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?

[Gaixo]

In my league we usually give one out for free. The coach with the lesser TV is allowed to chose the deck, the cards themselves are picked randomly. Mixes up the game quiet good.

There are tournaments like that as well.

[BullBear]

Blood Bowl is a product of the 80’s, it has near dark future roots in a cartoon Warhammer/2000AD-magic & technology-mash-up world. Goblins wear trucker caps, Dwarves wear sunglasses and wizards doff pointy hats. The Association of Broadcasting Conjurers, Cabalvision and all the other sponsors point to a commercialised (and Americanised) society that can only exist in a world where actual war has been replaced by Blood Bowl. I’m sure you could argue that it’s a satire of Thatcher-ite Britain with the spectre of hooliganism mixed in.

And the Bretonnians don’t fit that, all medieval armour and peasant shit just looks like a bunch of SCA enthusiasts in my mind.

Though I disagree with them, I can understand many arguments against Brets but not this one.

I mean, if we're willing to take on anachronistic goblins wearing trucker caps why can't we accept nutters in knight helmets?

Anyway, I've always thought the Brets should have had an official team. Coming from a society that places emphasis on jousting and tournaments, you'd think they'd be all over competing against their 'friendly neighbors' in Blood Bowl as well. It baffled me back in the day with then Norse and Amazons came on, but when the undead split into more teams and the elves got a 'pro' team, I figured at that point the game was going off the rails. I've come around to the Norse and Amazons, but still feel the pro-elf team is the lamest team in the recent editions of BB....for all the usual reasons.

[Fassbinder75]

You missed the point, the trucker caps are contemporary, not anachronistic.

[Moraiwe]

It amazes me how Fassbinder and I both enjoy the game so much, play in the same TT league, and yet have such opposing views on so much about Blood Bowl. In other words, your fluff bores me!

[JaM]

So, basically, the Brettoninans/Brets (use the spelling you like) represent some faction of LARPers who like to dress up as peasants or knights, and fancy a game of Bloodbowl..?

...

Works for me!

[Fassbinder75]

So, basically, the Brettoninans/Brets (use the spelling you like) represent some faction of LARPers who like to dress up as peasants or knights, and fancy a game of Bloodbowl..?

...

Works for me!

I need some of that to get me through a game with those clowns. But yeah, man, like... !censored! knights<upward inflection>

[BullBear]

You missed the point, the trucker caps are contemporary, not anachronistic.

You are correct, I used the wrong phrase.

Point being, if we can accept some contemporary trappings why is it difficult to accept yahoos with Knight helmets in the same fantasy universe?

[Jimmy Fantastic]

They're in a position where they can't really win, because if they add nothing, people get mad. They expand the roster with new content, people get mad.

Not at all. All they had to do was port the board game in full with no bugs and it would have been the best game all times.

[Darkson]

A Jimmy Fantastic post I agree with 100% - I think Ragnarok is here.

[crookedwookie]

Like any tournament player is willing to play the cards...


Back to my question, suggestion for a proper Bretonnian player conversion?

Back to what I think is indeed a worthy question, I'm a big fan of Plasmoid's team where he uses 3rd edition Blitzers as knights, linemen as squires, and Vampire thralls as peasant linemen. They're so skinny and disheveled that they really look the part.

I have seen some people pull them together using Bretonnian WHFB models they converted, but that does run the risk of looking awfully "military" for lack of a better word. I think even more important than converting models is using a paint scheme that looks very Bretonnian - checkered patterns, halves in different colors, etc.

[DinoTitanedition]

That`s what I thought too. Maybe a white stripe at some spots to give it a more sporty look. The thralls were also a consideration with a headswap. Even though I like the regular peasant models, they just do not look like BB. What could also deliver an adequate look would be some of the 2nd edition humans with headswaps.

For the knights I thought to give them "sport boots". If the keep the armour on the legs they`d also lack the BB look. Will probably simply cut off the boots from some plastic humans.

I`ve also found small triangle shields to look fitting as beltattachements. I`ll post something, as soon as I have something to convert.

[harvestmouse]

My thoughts on all

1. I don't think I disagree with a person more than I do with Rolex on this issue. You call it adapting fluff to fit. I call it butchering the fluff until it's pointless.

2. I think the pictures on Plasmoid's site were originally for FUMBBL portraits, so are the imagination of the artist.

3. As pointed out Bretonnians were not in 1st edition, and that the Knights and Peasants represented the Albion Wanderers. In fact Bretonnians didn't exist when 1st edition came out. If they did, I'd wager they would have been.

4. How could a team with av7 ag2 linos be seen as one of the top 5 rosters? The mind boggles....

5. Personally for me, I don't think new rosters have to add something massively new, why should it? What's wrong with giving players more choice?

6. Although the Bretonnian army list doesn't use Peasants now, they used to. This is a definitive difference between the Empire and Bretonnia; a huge disparity in the class system. So I don't see a problem at all with them being included in the roster. Knights refusing to do the dirty work.

7. I think that the human does represent the generic human team. Therefore human blitzers reprsent a standard knight. So a Bretonnian Knight would be the same as a blitzer. However how would they be different to standard Knights? Maybe not, maybe so in their Chivalry. Chivalry could be portrayed by Dauntless or/and Stand Firm, both have been used in this way.

The other difference is that the level of Knights. Bretonnia have seriously hard Knights at their disposal. Chaos Warrior standard Knights.

8. So is there enough here to make a roster that brings something massively new and adds a new playstyle, but stays to the fluff? Probably not. However there is enough to make a fun roster.

9. 2 extreme tiers. Very poor linemen and very good Knight/Blitzers; with maybe a yeoman/squire type in between. The stats however should be based off of the human roster with changes only where Bretonnians differ only.

10. Reikland Reavers and the Altdorf Acolytes are the same team (they changed their name). The team was portrayed with blockers, humans don't have them now!

11. It doesn't affect me, but I'm not a fan of the roster and I wouldn't like to see it become official. Positions are fine, stats are fine but the description and skill access is all over the place. Like Khorne it moves away from how Neoliminal wrote about describing players. I think a lot of players really are underestimating the importance of fluff and portrayal.

12. Saying that, Plasmoid's worked hard for this hobby and deserves some recognition.

[plasmoid]

Hi all,

BullBear said:

Though I disagree with them, I can understand many arguments against Brets but not this one.

Thank you. Me neither.

First off - while I loved 2nd ed., it was made obsolete over 20 years ago. The eighties vibe it had was 30 years ago. Whether one loves biker caps and dark Shades for BB fluff, that imagery is not a significant part of the official rulebooks from 3rd ed. onwards, nor of the miniatures produced. Love it as much as you like, but a team for the current edition of Blood Bowl couldn't possible take that into account.

Secondly - being upset about knight or a feudal nation in BB feels a bit like painting your orcs pink and then complaining about GWs stupid pink orcs.
Yes, Cyanide made the Bret team a team with knight grpahics. And perhaps - perhaps - they were inspired by Knut Rockies artwork on my website. If that is the case, then I kind if regret posting it. My original design from 15+ years ago was what Rolex calls WarhammerBowl - and got slammed for it. The latest one isn't. It is Bretonnian nobles, their serfs and some lowborn fillers. No knights, no horses, no halbardiers.
The positions are Blitzers, Yeomen and Linemen.
The idea was not to port Bretonnian society as such - but to imagine what the team would be like if the Bretonnian nobility was playing the game.

Be that as it may. For anyone considering Brets for TT playing I'd say:
Don't like Knights playing BB? Don't imagine them as knights.
Don't think a medieval feudal society fits BB? Don't imagine that it's medieval.
Love the eighties vibe? Imagine the Bretonnian nobility jousting on bikes for all I care.

There is no printed Bret BB-fluff and no cast Bret BB-miniatures.
My own version of a Bret team, posted on my website, used the old 3rd ed humans for Blitzers and Yeomen, combined with Thralls for linemen. I find none of that incompatible with the current version of the BB universe.

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi Harvestmouse,
thanks for your kind Words - even if you don't like the roster

I agree with an awful lot of your 12 bullits. Only 2 Things go against my thinking:
1) As stated, I don't like BB to port Warhammer troop types. I can't stand the thought of super hard knights playing BB. A grail knight is guarding a grail shrine, not playing BB. IMO, BB isn't for veterans of war, it is for professional athletes.

2) you said:

Positions are fine, stats are fine but the description and skill access is all over the place. Like Khorne it moves away from how Neoliminal wrote about describing players. I think a lot of players really are underestimating the importance of fluff and portrayal.

I'm sorry you feel that way, because I do consider portrayal to be important, I tried very hard not to overdescribe the players, just as I was hell bent on not "butchering the fluff" the way the Khorne roster did.

I tried to portray a team of arrogant glory hogging Bretonnian nobles, their personal serfs and some downtrodden no good riff-raff.
The Blitzers are bretonnian nobility that didn't pursue an actual military career. Still, they're human blitzers with a taste for chivalry and a knack for making fancy plays. To me, such an aristocrat isn't a dumb, blocking brute. He knows how to win BB games and make the crowd go wild.

The Yeomen are basically human linemen, but trained in clearing the way for their lieges. S-access to let them develop both into guards (the number one "helper" skill in the game) as well as ball fetchers. Wrestle has the double purpose of making them poor ball carriers. I find that rather more elegant than slapping Animosity on everyone yet Again.

The linemen are imagined like the other human linemen: 6337 + a skill. This one to reflect their cowering nature. The knock to their AG was to reflect their poor training - the knights might use them for blocking practice, but not for fancy passing plays.

Cheers
Martin

PS - I kind of regret putting dauntless instead of juggernaut on the blitzers. I actually put it to the playtesters, but they said it would be too harsh on the team. But I like(d) that it is another semi-useful "new" skill - and I also like that it would trump both of the skills used by the lower classes Ah well, can't be helped.

[plasmoid]

As a blast from the past - AFAIK this was my first 15-years-ago overdescribed WarhammerBowl Bretonnian roster. Only the titles have been changed.

0-16 Peasant 6227 Dodge G
0-2 Squire of the Field 6338 Sure Hands G
0-2 Squire of the Line 6338 Guard G
0-2 Knight of the Line 5339 Block, Pro, Multiple Block, Dauntless GS
0-2 Knight of the Field 7338 Block, Pro, Pass, Catch GAP

They were a lot of fun