Bretonnian roster... What's the deal?

[DinoTitanedition]

Au contraire! This actually binds the BB setting closer to a 6th/7th Edition timeline. At least geographically and regarding the inhabitants of the BB world. The Endtimes never happened in the BB universe.

[crookedwookie]

The human team doesn't represent the Empire it represents the old world humans, basically Europeans in a weird steampunk version of the warhammer world. I'd argue the Empire has a far greater claim to getting their own team as they are a lot more interesting than Bretonnia. That's certainly what both GW and the fans think as the Empire are one of the most popular lists and Bretonnia one of the least.

Not only does the Empire already have cheap infantry and lots of cool cavalry including people riding Demigryphs and clockwork horses. But they also have loads of cool war machines and weapons, warrior priests, flagellants and older lists had dwarfs, halfings and ogres in the normal list. So if anything normal humans could be renamed Bretonnians and an Empire team added with players wielding blunderbuss's or bombs and having some sort of low armoured frenzied player as flagellants and add a couple of halflings to the team.

Regarding peasants, they may make up the bulk of the Bretonnian population but not their armies. Mostly it's the knights doing the fighting with the peasants adding support.
Both mounted yeomen and knights errant had normal human stats and could easily be used as the linemen with knights of the realm or better being the blitzer/blocker types. There are plenty of fit and healthy people without the need to recruit from the riff raff.
Skaven use slaves far more in their society, but those are not in the team as there are plenty of normal skaven. Chaos dwarfs having hobgoblins makes sense as they are rather low on numbers, mind you I have a fondness for the 2nd edition evil dwarf team over the WHFB port we have now.

I think we have about the right amount of teams and need to be careful not to dilute the core key for the sake of it. By all means add as many teams as you want to your league, but I'm wary of splintering an already small community. As I've said before I would happily drop pro elfs or necros as they don't add much, but I don't think khorne, bretonnians or apes are better than either of those to take their place.

I say go big or go home, if a new team is to be added it should be something that stands out. I can see this being attempted with the Brets, but many of the choices and changes look to have been made just to be different. Things like the AG2 on the linemen, catch and passing access on the blitzers look to have been done just because no one else had those. To me juggernaut perfectly represents what they are famous for, the devastating charge, it's a shame horns is a mutation rather than a skill as that would work well too.

Reikland Reavers? For nearly one hundred years The Grand Principality of Reikland has been the most important state of the Empire, for it surrounds Altdorf, the Imperial capital, and its armies are those under the command of the Prince of Altdorf: the Emperor himself. It was also one of the founding Provinces of the Empire during the reign of Sigmar Heldenhammer.

Middenland Mauraders? Middenheim is a fictional city in the province of Middenland in the land called The Empire in the Warhammer Fantasy setting. Commonly known as The City of the White Wolf, is second only in size and influence to the Empire's capital Altdorf.

Altdorf Acolytes? Altdorf is the Imperial capital.

Tell me more about how the human team doesn't represent the Empire.
I mean seriously, if they need to maintain the fiction it's a WHOLE DIFFERENT universe for their purposes, that's their business, I guess. But I think we have to acknowledge there's a big nudge and a wink involved.

[dode74]

The context makes it obvious that he means not just the empire.

[Darkson]

I guess we'd better add mutations to crookedwookie's Norse teams then, seeing as in WFB (which he holds so highly) Norse are now Chaotic.

Again, JJ, the person that designed the game, said that the human team represents all the Old World human nations. Just because the few named versions (many of which aren't even if the official CRP now) are from the Empire doesn't mean that they all are. If one of the teams had been the Montfort Marauders would you claim it was a Bretonnian roster?

Add in the JJ could have made a Bret roster an official experimental roster and said no as "it didn't add anything and is covered by humans" (slight paraphrase, as the GW forum he said it on is no longer available).

[DinoTitanedition]

Wher is JJ? I`d like to hear from him, what he thinks about the roster.

[Darkson]

Nottingham.

[Fassbinder75]

Fantasy Battle comparisons aside, I’ve always gravitated towards 2nd Ed fluff because it has a much greater degree of internal consistency in my opinion, which isn’t saying much! Sports can only exist in a civil society and as such the army themed 3rd edition just has no resonance with me. There’s just no way can I reconcile an Orc team visiting a Dwarf city in the Warhammer Fantasy world, playing a game of Blood Bowl and then departing peacefully.

Blood Bowl is a product of the 80’s, it has near dark future roots in a cartoon Warhammer/2000AD-magic & technology-mash-up world. Goblins wear trucker caps, Dwarves wear sunglasses and wizards doff pointy hats. The Association of Broadcasting Conjurers, Cabalvision and all the other sponsors point to a commercialised (and Americanised) society that can only exist in a world where actual war has been replaced by Blood Bowl. I’m sure you could argue that it’s a satire of Thatcher-ite Britain with the spectre of hooliganism mixed in.

And the Bretonnians don’t fit that, all medieval armour and peasant shit just looks like a bunch of SCA enthusiasts in my mind. Never mind that the list is boring and mostly irrelevant! The Parravon Penetrators and Bright Crusaders were/are Human teams. Deal!

Now then, despite all that hate I really have no problem with people playing and enjoying this stupid list. It’s your hobby after all.

[Darkson]

Now then, despite all that hate I really have no problem with people playing and enjoying this stupid list. It’s your hobby after all.

I agree with that 100%, but don't try to force it on other people. I'd rather play a Fimir team, which is at least interesting and different, but that doesn't mean I expect the NAF to take it on.

[J_Bone]

I agree with that 100%, but don't try to force it on other people

I don't quite understand that... I really don't like certain teams that are currently available to play in Blood Bowl but I don't feel like they are in any way forced on me. They're just an option that I think isn't very good or fun. Unless that option gives your opponent some kind of unfair advantage I don't see how having more options is a bad thing.

[JaM]

Also, I vote for a Genestealers Team. Omnomnomnom!

As long as they can drive a limo on the field (genestealer-cult and all).

OTOH:

http://www.midgardbb.com/OtherTeams/AlphaComplex.html

[Darkson]

I don't quite understand that...

As it stands what you (the proverbial you) do in your own league is up to you - if you like Brets, Khorne, Apes or the Slug team from Lustria you can play them, and it has no effect on what my league does or does not play, but the constant clamouring for the NAF to accept a Bret (or Khorne) team, just because it's in the Cyanide version, would mean, if added, I'd have to accept a Bret or Khorne team otherwise my event* would not be ranked. There are enough uninspired rosters in BB (Amazons, Dwarfs) without adding two more.

People keep saying that because it's in the PC game it's official, and yet GW didn't consider the Khorne roster official, so I see no reason why the NAF should. Same with Brets.

If the NAF really wants to become some arbitrators of the rules, fix the issues that are already there - Amazons, Dwarfs, hell, even ClawPoMb to shut the bleaters up about that.

Again, what you want to house rule into your play is fine, but don't force your house rules onto me.


* Though of course my event is on hiatus after this year, but...

[Manuel]

Darkson is very rigth.

The main problem here is how much of Cyanide's inventions you are happily accepting assuming they are the embodiement of the rules. Which they are NOT.

And again, Plasmoid's rosters is not as bad... at least the guys who did it made it carefully and explain theit reasons for its existence. Cyanide's creation skills produce aberrations such as the P access linemen from the Khorne team.

[DinoTitanedition]

There’s just no way can I reconcile an Orc team visiting a Dwarf city in the Warhammer Fantasy world, playing a game of Blood Bowl and then departing peacefully.

Exactly - Warhammer Fantasy is not BB. BB just emerged from that material. So in Warhammer Fantasy it wouldn`t be possible, in Blood Bowl it is. Eben though I cannot see anythin civilized about fans throwing with rocks at the players, hauling them over the stadium border or causing a riot. It`s this and a lot more, that clearly states, BB is persiflage.

Blood Bowl is a product of the 80’s, it has near dark future roots in a cartoon Warhammer/2000AD-magic & technology-mash-up world. Goblins wear trucker caps, Dwarves wear sunglasses and wizards doff pointy hats. The Association of Broadcasting Conjurers, Cabalvision and all the other sponsors point to a commercialised (and Americanised) society that can only exist in a world where actual war has been replaced by Blood Bowl. I’m sure you could argue that it’s a satire of Thatcher-ite Britain with the spectre of hooliganism mixed in.

The time of it`s creation is an interesting fact, because I believe to refer to Warhammer as being part of the Warhammer 40K universe. 40K is inspired by 2000AD, WHFB is not. But just like the comic book novels of 2000AD were different in the 80`s times have changed and influenced the Blood Bowl fluff as well. And why shouldn`t it? I see the novels from Matt Forbeck as a great source of inspiration and think they catch the current of feel of BB excellent. If you read them, you might be a little more open to the evolution BB has went through over the years. Of course, just a suggestion, since they are a great read and closer to what BB is currently, than to what it was in the 80`s.

I also don`t thing the list is boring, but that`s only my opinion. Something new compared to what I`m for....20 years? 30 years now? That is rather fresh. The relevance will also increase since it will bring more new players to the game. There is going to be quite a lot of people who`d like to stick to that team, if they liked it in the first place.

Personally I`d like to thank plasmoid here, since to me the roster seems to be rounded and well thoguth of. If you ever want to test another new roster I`d be glad to help.

Nottingham. ;)Nottingham.

I`ll try to get an email I can write to, cause I`m really curious about his thoughts on that roster He still works for the company, doesn`t he?

I agree with that 100%, but don't try to force it on other people. I'd rather play a Fimir team, which is at least interesting and different, but that doesn't mean I expect the NAF to take it on.

Oh, I don`t expect the NAF to take it on either. I`m not even a member of the NAF, since it has no relevance to my league, or my surrounding field of players. Out of the same reason nothing the NAF says is official to me, just because the NAF said so. The NAF does not own the game, therefore is not the deciding instance wether something is official or not - at least not to any other field of players wich is not using the NAF community apparatus or plays on non NAF tournaments. Of course, just like you have mentioned, Cyanide isn`t official either.....or, is it? I mean they bought the license to port Blood Bowl and I cannot see GW interferring with their rosters as they have interfered with say, the Slann roster....

[Darkson]

The Forbeck novels are crap.

[Darkson]

Cyanide isn`t official either.....or, is it? I mean they bought the license to port Blood Bowl and I cannot see GW interferring with their rosters as they have interfered with say, the Slann roster....

They didn't "buy" the license - they were forced to make the BB game as part of a settlement when GW took them to court over IP-infringement for Cyanide's Chaos League game. If someone offered to pay for the license I imagine GW would drop Cyanide like a bad habit.