(Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Necros vs the world of Blood Bowl

[squirrelfanatic]

I assume this half-cage is equivalent to a sideline cage? I've learned to stay away from those if I'm not desperate to score in the next turn. Lizards may be able to pull it off with less difficulties since they have both more ST and flexibility with their MV. Also, their ball carriers can somewhat rely on being stunty and have an easier time using the backdoor out of the cage should it get bogged down.

As a Necro, you're basically pinning one of your mobile players against the wall, dedicate your anchors to a position far into the playside and remove their ability to support/pin somewhere else, essentially giving the opposition more options to run players into their backfield.

Having said that, in my limited understanding of the flow of the game, I'd probably keep the ballcarrier as far away from the sidelines as necessary to prevent an easy surf and instead screen with ST3 dudes while leaving the Golems in the centerfield where they (hopefully) can tar several players.

[Digger Goreman]

The reason for this thread is to explore flexible thinking and alternative responses as well as best practices....

Another way to present the... exercise... is to ask, "Is it reasonably advantageous, to be able to utilze a 'sideline cage', to give a werewolf or ghoul sidestep as a first skill?" On the one hand, you might say, "I eschew the sidelines so much that it is a waste to consider sidestep before the traditional third skill choice." On the other hand, to strengthen the two turn set piece and /or when a sideline cage might be necessary in an emergency or to project force economically, maybe a deviation would shake up the paradigm and provide another trick for the wiley Necromancer....

In the lizardman article, the author suggested using a side-stepping ball carrier, next to the sideline, flanked by two sauri.... Sidestep mitigates being surfed.... The author went on to say the task becomes easier with stand firm on the sauri.... My mind quickly latched onto the fact that Necros could do the same with needing only one skill gained instead of three.... You have two "slower sauri" with stand firm, only needing to give sidestep to a wolf/ghoul.... Voila!

Necros aren't the best caging team anyway and very often I run screens instead of cages.... This might just be the insight to another layer/level of play....

[swilhelm73]

IMO, most teams will willingly let Necro run a 2 turn score if you want to go for it...so I don't know that you really want to focus on how to develop for it.

Sidestep is an excellent choice for wither a WW or GH though - the former since you want to play near the sideline when you can (and it can make for some nasty choices for the other side - if I block this wolf and don't injure him...next turn he pushes me out!!!) and in both cases SS increases survivability - lessening follow up blocks and fouls.

Ideally if you can field 4 SF and 4 SS players you are going to make controlling position very hard for your opposition.

[swilhelm73]

Necros aren't the best caging team anyway and very often I run screens instead of cages....

That is true. However, setting up an early cage can at times draw your opponents in, freeing you to reverse direction. If you are trying for this, try to have the front of your cage Zs, and then have the FGs more in the direction you think your opponent will leave open.

If you opponent ends up with his better players stuck on your Zs while you scamper away in the other direction you've probably just given yourself a nice time wasting score as he tries to get back into position...

[Jimmy Fantastic]

SS after Blodge(and stats/doubles) Sideline cage is not news....

[Digger Goreman]

Nothing destroys cages like six vampires! Couldn't test the golems half cage as the 13th Element faced a full brace of vampires and a quintuplet of thralls, both sides playing their second game and each side having only two rerolls.... Took me the whole half and surviving two spilled balls (losing the ag4 wolf to the k.o. box by turn three).... The jewel of the half came when (knowing I couldn't outrun all his players) I quick passed out of his range, to an open space.... While my remaining wolf muffed the turn seven pick up, the rest of the team contained the opposition and the squirrely dog planted a turn eight score.... While having to use their rerolls in the first two turns, the vamps never actually failed a bloodlust....

The second half we were both back at full strength (though both throwing a plethora of blocks, ZERO casualties the whole game) and after a nuff-fest of blood lusting and my block Wolf throwing double skulls on the crucial blitz, I forced a quick vamp score.... By now the vamp implosion began in earnest with two knockouts of thralls and the tightened mobility issues that brings (one vamp left the field for lack of a snack).... Skirting a strong side scrum, wolf hands off to wight and (after a one turn stall) places the winning touchdown.... Perfect Defense on the ensuing kickoff allowed me to spoil the vamps attempts at a two turn equalizer....

While only upgrading a wight with MiB, the 13th Element added its 12th and 13th players with the acquisition of two rookie ghouls.... That's a 24% increase in value in only two games... nice....

[Digger Goreman]

Watched over a month of fumbbl games and now need a permanent WTF button on my keyboard.... Lotsa questionable technique out there....

[squirrelfanatic]

Watched over a month of fumbbl games and now need a permanent WTF button on my keyboard.... Lotsa questionable technique out there....

Don't keep the fun stuff all for yourself, spill the beans.

After another match, my own Necro team now looks like this:

Wolf #1 - Block, MB
Wolf #2 - Block
Golem #1 - n/a, 4SPPs
Golem #2 - Block
Wight #1 - Guard
Wight #2 - Guard
Ghoul #1 - Block
Zombie #1 - Block
Zombie #2 - Wrestle
Zombie #3-6 - n/a, 2 at 5SPPs (guess where those came from), 1 at 2SPPs

Quite happy that I finally managed to score with a Golem, the MVP on the same guy made it all the sweeter. Wolf #2 got Block, just in time for the game against the Lizardmen team that's coming up.

More thoughts on strategy against Lizards. It seems no matter how I look at it, I won't be able to construct steady 2D blocks against the Sauri, which is to be expected, as that's their thing, lots of ST. But I should be able to get 2D blitzes with my Wolves more or less reliably with the help of my Wights.

Now, how to handle the amount of players I leave in contact with the opposition? My initial idea was to keep a Zombie/Golem/Wight in contact with the Sauri and maybe even Krox (if I knock it down) and hope that armor holds up long enough to stall for a while and maybe punch a Skink or two. But then again... that's also more or less what my opponent wants me to do, give him bodies to punch.

So on second thought, I guess I need to figure out the sweet spot between holding up Sauri and not giving up too many free blocks. I guess it's back to FUMBBL again for watching more replays. A fundamental trouble I have with that though is that it's difficult to find fitting comparisons between the teams in the replay and my own team setup. It seems that most of the really competent coaches manage to pick up Block/Guard on the Golems right away which appears to make a tremendous difference. So maybe I'll see if I can find replays of other races and try to deduct something from their approach of handling Lizardmen. I mean, how hard can it be to control a team that's lacking skills on most of their meaty players?

Right?

[swilhelm73]

You rarely want to leave your players in contact with his if you can help it.

Most of the time a screen does the trick without having to take a block to the face on your own.

Overall I think Lizards are a tough matchup for Necro as they are faster and stronger then you.

On offense advance slow and steady...remember you've got 8 turns to get your Ghoul with the ball 7 spaces from the end zone.

You one notable advantage is likely sideline play with SF and Frenzy (and likely neither on the lizards).

If he marks your players a lot and they are bunched up remember that Frenzy can clear two players if done right or setup his players for a nice boot to the face.

[Digger Goreman]

On fumbbl it is mostly coaches of all stripes, but most especially it is when the experienced players throw dice in actions that, if failed (and all rolls might fail), would result in losing a td.... The dictums of MOVE before rolling dice, make important rolls while you have rerolls, and leave unimportant spit till the end of the turn just doesn't seem to infect people there.... Shrug, it IS their games, but I was sent there to learn something and feel bewildered and nearly depressed that this passes for quality Blood Bowl.... Watched a match today where the dwarf coach had ONE chance to stop the winning score (admittedly low probability) but went in the opposite direction and never even challenged the score.... Maybe I was better trained to see things... doubt it, but the play is too random for me to take away any lessons....

On the lizzies: you have him out blocked (7 blockers on your side, I AM jealous!) so your screens should do the trick.... Watch carefully how you position your wights.. and shred his skinks!!!

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Hehe maybe the pro as heck DG (who has just discovered a sideline cage) should play a few games and show them nooby fumbblers how it's done?!

[Digger Goreman]

I love the ignore list

[squirrelfanatic]

Hey swilhelm, thanks for the advice, I'll try to keep it in mind. Screening is such a basic thing to do but I often find myself tangled up in the complexity of tackle zone coverage and analysis of potential weaknesses in my cover. Then I start to panic as the clock ticks down which in turn results in suboptimal positioning.

Turns out, it's not that easy (for me) to break things down into simple rules to follow when distributing my guys on the pitch. It always amazes me how good coaches seem to anticipate upcoming moves. And that's what makes FUMBBL so fascinating to me. Whenever I see a decent play I can just stop the clock, take my time gawping at the screen and then rewind trying to figure out how the heck everything came together.

And Digger, I think there is as broad of a variety of proficiency between coaches on FUMBBL as anywhere else. I guess even the super stars of the pitch have their moments.

[sann0638]

It is generally easier to spot people's mistakes than not make your own. Good that you are speccing games though. If you want an intro I would heartily recommend the upcoming road to nafc tournament. 6 games equivalent to a tournament, non progression.

[squirrelfanatic]

Oh great! I'll definitely look into this, thanks for the heads-up. Would that be something for a relatively unexperienced coach though? I don't mind the frustration of losing but are there any qualifiers necessary?