Taking the/my game to the next level: To act(ion) or not?

squirrelfanatic · Post by **squirrelfanatic** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:30 pm

The question of "How do I get better?" is something that has been on my mind for a while. Reading as much available info as possible, listening to all the strategy podcasts, watching matches on FUMBBL, all of this has helped me to get a better grasp of the game. Ultimately, I'm not sure if I've become that much better at the game, as I still seem to struggle with similar problems like Digger (when to do what, when not to). Playing more BB certainly helps, but it would probably help even more if one got a better understanding of why more experienced coaches are performing all the little steps (tying players down, positioning them somewhere they will be helpful next turn).

While I don't have a good answer to your questions, it crossed my mind that any action you don't perform because you're looking to minimize risks, like a block for example, will... wait for it... have a 100% chance of doing nothing (apart from marking maybe). So what you're basically doing at every given instance is considering the risk of an action against the cost of not doing that action. Which is something some coaches might have really down but is pretty much beyond me. Frustrating.

Jimmy Fantastic · Post by **Jimmy Fantastic** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:42 pm

Well Squirrelfanatic a lot of the so-called advice on the internet in general is pretty terrible tbh, and even the simplest questions rarely get a clear consensus.
With the fumbbl cup happening atm it's the perfect time to spectate a match as there will be several people watching and if you ask questions they will be able to answer - though again they may not always be right.
I recommend you join the 145 club and get a few games in, and then you could also ask for feedback on the matches in the forum.
I think you should definitely play a lot on fumbbl, but there are guys on fumbbl who have played well more than my 1600 games who are still awful lol.

squirrelfanatic · Post by **squirrelfanatic** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:14 pm

Definitely agree on the subjective advice thing. One of the reasons why forums tend to be better for getting solid advice for development over podcasts (for example) is that between 2-3 people discussing a certain team/build/development path, quite frequently quickly a general consensus is reached and there is little discussion about alternative views.

Regarding FUMBBL: Thanks for pointing me at the cup, will definitely check it out. I've actually already joined the 145 club but haven't managed to play a game yet. Another thing I'm planning to change soon.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:55 pm

Thanks for posting SF, that subjective... possibly intuitive (even unconcious) decision making process is what I am after.... Quantitatively, I think you are right: we are weighing the risk against doing nothing, against gain.... From those erudite masters, I would like to hear of the instances and reasoning behind the choices of inaction....

For the empirical side, though the game today was an unmitigated disaster, I felt all the decisions I made were solid, the actions I didn't take were not worth taking, and only the disparity of the dice drove the outcome...

So I think "inaction" is that distillation of winning essence we are looking for....

sann0638 · Post by **sann0638** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:37 am

Inaction is a minor facet of it. But risk reward is huge. I am planning a some youtube commentaries of fumbbl matches explaining decisions, and others have done the same. Search fumbbl on youtube. There are lots of cyanide too.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:34 am

I may change my mind in the future, and will disagree for now (about the relative importance of inaction)....

What you say brings to mind the wisdom of Sgt Pinckney who said, "There are two kinds of problems in life: Elephants (risk reward) and ants (when inaction is preferable); elephants are huge, noticeable, and can be gone around, under or through.... Son, don't let the ants get you down...."

I will continue to explore, experiment, and hope for expressed insight as I see inaction as the invisible pivot of greatness....

Jimmy Fantastic · Post by **Jimmy Fantastic** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:52 am

Lol wow. You are something special!

Glowworm · Post by **Glowworm** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:55 am

Sit up straight when you play.....I slouch and lose a lot but I notice the best players sit straight and really stare at the pitch, often with thier elbows on the table, hands supporting thier heads...oh, and concentrate, don't chat or joke as sometimes that's seen as bad form. (I'm not bitter and twisted at all)

On subject: I think you have to be comfortable with the team you play, know thier weaknesses ( rather than strengths) and concentrate on not allowing your opponent to exploit them, out manoeuvring a slow team for example, or out bashing a fragile team.

Don't get frustrated, yep, your opponent will nearly always make that 1 in 6 roll ( it seems) but don't let it get to you, you'll occasionally make them as well.

I play for fun ( not ever going to be good enough to play for glory) and this tends to lead me to actions which may be more risky but have a better payoff if successful.

Do you need to get better? will it lead to more enjoyment? Sounds strange but stop and think, what difference will all this effort make long term?

Probably no help at all, but we play a great game with random elements built in, all I'm saying is make sure your ultimate goal is rewarding for you...

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Jimmy... I think Diggers quest is something all of us go through when you have played for as long as we have. Not something to be mocked at all. Then it hit me.... All your posts are directed at yourself right as you, after all, are trolling his thread

Jimmy Fantastic · Post by **Jimmy Fantastic** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:16 pm

Dude it's a troll thread - we all know that top coaches are not just lucky. I guess the best course of action was to ignore it from the start but there you go.
Seriously you think it's a "quest" to understand why good players sometimes don't take an action with an 11% or 26% risk of failure?
If you notice I did answer the Tree question and gave advice to squirrelfanatic - Digger Goreman was the one insulting people...

Waldorf28 · Post by **Waldorf28** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:50 pm

I actually think it's a valid question and there's a lot of truth in the fact that truly great coaches know when to stop rolling. Managing Big Guys gives you your first lesson in this - sometimes the best course of action is no action at all if you don't want to lose your TZ.

However with a sig like that, *every* thread Digger starts could legitimately be called a troll thread!

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:53 pm

Some sigs are exaggerations of facts or just added as they sound cool. Mine is true but I cannot speak for Digger. However there should come a point where you accept the thread for what it is and stop messing with the guy

Waldorf28 · Post by **Waldorf28** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:40 pm

I have certainly accepted the thread for what it is.

Don__Vito · Post by **Don__Vito** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:50 pm

I've plenty I could try and add to this thread but I've purposefully chosen not to reply as I find the original poster to regularly derail other threads, come across passive aggressively and condescendingly, and generally spout nonsense.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:25 pm

Hey, Dig! Join FUMBBL. All your questions will be answered.

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