Vampires

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:36 pm

wesleytj wrote:yes but he won't ever be nearly as good...all he does is lose the neg skill. for a team designed so heavily around 1 player that's a big deal.

Wes ... you REALLY need to read up on things before you post and multiple times with the same thing when folks are saying its not that way.

That was the old Compendium rule that you keep refering to.

The new rules for the team are the Lesser Vampire gets +1 ST and +1 AV and loses OFAB when promoted.

Galak

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:47 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:The new rules for the team are the Lesser Vampire gets +1 ST and +1 AV and loses OFAB when promoted.

Galak

oh. does he get the skills too? block dodge etc?

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:01 pm

To Pariah:

First, with teams coming and going, that doesn't mean people are always retiring teams. Coaches are almost always creating new teams in an open league. In the OBL, for example, coaches are generally allowed four teams. There's no one out there who has created all four teams at once. If your team gets beaten on, you can always wait for the next 100 TR team to show up and play recovery against them. In addition to this, coach attendence tends to fluctuate. A guy who shows up this week may not be available for the next four. His teams aren't growing like the rest of the league, which means his teams will still be low TR compared to everyone else.

"Cervidal wrote:
If one of your teams hits a wall, you can always choose to not play them in favor of one of your other teams.

#1 No you can't. They will be challenged by jackals looking for easy wins. and...
#2 Even if you could choose to just not play them why is that better than starting over? So you are saying that if I am allowed 2 teams and one of them gets crunched in it's first game and next game can only field 7 players I should just leave it alone and never play it or start a new team?
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

In answer to #1, if you don't want to play against someone, you can't be forced. Even in a system that enforces challenge rules, I can't honestly believe that any commish would honestly force a low TR team to play against someone much bigger and looking for slaughter.

In #2, you're going out of your way to misunderstand me. Again, using the OBL as an example, if I have three or four teams, I can sit on one of my teams that is doing poorly until other low rated teams show up.

On a personal note, you seem to be going out of your way here to smear the intention of my words. Declaring something "the stupidest thing I have ever heard" in a reasonable discussion is garnering you no credibility at all. If you disagree, disagree. Don't cut someone, anyone, down when all we're talking about is personal opinion. I didn't say anything outlandish that made me look like I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the rules and mechanics of Blood Bowl. Don't treat me like I'm some kind of moron.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:04 pm

Hmmmmm .... think the easiest way to solve the problem is to remove the Lord from the team and give the team 0-8 Vampires. Removes all the need for this debate, and probably solves the final balance issue of the team. The fact that they have basically a star player on the roster able to get skills.

Oh and Wes, they removed Block and Dodge from the starting Vampire Lord in the new rules.

Galak

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:06 pm

You're right, the 0-8 vampires would remove the balance issue, especially since it would be rough to field 8 vampires at a time!

It seems like there is a real hang up, though, when it comes to giving up that Vampire Lord. It IS one more special mini you would have to buy for the team, eh?

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:11 pm

hehehe can you tell yet that nobody plays vamp teams around here?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:16 pm

Cervidal wrote:You're right, the 0-8 vampires would remove the balance issue, especially since it would be rough to field 8 vampires at a time!

Already talked to two Vampire coaches rolling over into next season about the fact that we were going to remove the Lord from the MBBL roster that we are testing and fill it in with 2 more normal vampires. They were not thrilled, but they understood as both of them have proven beyond a doubt to me that he's broken as a player. Basically if the team wants a friendly Lord to take the pitch they can freeboot Luthor for 90k. Basically all 3 of my Vampire coaches have enjoyed playing the team with the COFAB rules. Drop the Lord, bring in 2 more normal Vampires (which makes the team look like more like a Vampire team anyway), and I'm pretty convinced that the team will be balanced enough for LRB admission in October.

Galak

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:17 pm

If Fanatic already has the Vamp Lord mini in development/production, it's all moot then anyway

Princelucianus · Post by **Princelucianus** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:19 pm

The best which will happen is a tweaked version of the vampire lord. During the No'ham seminar, I saw they had already sculpted the vampire lord, so I don't think the final version will be printed without the lord.

Lucy

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:21 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Hmmmmm .... think the easiest way to solve the problem is to remove the Lord from the team and give the team 0-8 Vampires. Removes all the need for this debate, and probably solves the final balance issue of the team. The fact that they have basically a star player on the roster able to get skills.
Galak

Finally somebody is listening to me ... I really do not know anymore how long I am trying to convince anybode here that the Vampire Lord in the Vampire Team is highly unbalancing the whole Vampire roster ...

sometimes it pays out to be patient

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:23 pm

Maybe GW could be convinced that the new Vampire Lord should be an updated version of Count Luthor?

Blackscale · Post by **Blackscale** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:30 pm

Or you could just use the Lord mini for vampires with a bit more experience.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:34 pm

Skummy wrote:Maybe GW could be convinced that the new Vampire Lord should be an updated version of Count Luthor?

Okay my thoughts on this since I DESPISE WITH EVER OUNCE OF MY BEING HAVING TO BALANCE ROSTERS BASED ON MINIS IN PRODUCTION.

I have 3 ways to work with an already in production Vampire Lord mini:

1) He's just another Vampire. A stronger looking Vampire figs would make a great Head Coach fig or be a good alternate to mix in with the team to produce variety in the team's look. Heck, Darkson has an ST 5 Vampire on his team ... I could easily see folks using a Lordy looking fig for an ST or AG upgrade Vampire. (On my Vampire team in 3rd edition, I had one lineman get +1 ST and another +1 AG, so I painted up new figs for them.... Zug for the one and Hosi for the other ... team looked nice).

2) He's an alternate for Count Luthor or if push comes to shove make up a new Vampire Star Player that will only play for the Vampire team ... how about Mighty Blow and Stand Firm instead of Block and Dodge using Lord stats and pull out a good name from the Von Carstien family for him.

3) If all else fails, a special rule for the Vampire team. Remove their ability to freeboot a Wizard, instead allow them for 50k to bring in a special temporary Head Coach who can manage the sidelines while the Vampire Lord head coach takes the field with his team. Use the stat line currently in BB Mag for this player and add a special rule that all casualties suffered by this player are treated as Badly Hurt (so there is no complication with what happens if he dies or is supposed to miss the next game).

Any of these three would work and allow in the new fig.

Galak

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:50 pm

Galak: 2) He's an alternate for Count Luthor or if push comes to shove make up a new Vampire Star Player that will only play for the Vampire team ... how about Mighty Blow and Stand Firm instead of Block and Dodge using Lord stats and pull out a good name from the Von Carstien family for him.

I like this option the best, especially since you could tie him into the new Star Player Vampire killer, Zara. The two could be such mortal enemies that when one is freebooted, the other could offer their services to the opposing team at 1/2 price if they could normally be freebooted for them.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:50 pm

Cervidal wrote:This is exactly the difference between us as players, Z. Why <i>should</i> I have the same chance against other coaches if they have wrecked my team within the rules of the game?

No, but if i restart the team, at least i'll stand a chance. The other team will still be better than mine because of SPPs.

I don't think i've ever restarted a team (maybe wood elves once), but i have zero problem with people who do.