Vampires

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:05 pm

This is exactly the difference between us as players, Z. Why <i>should</i> I have the same chance against other coaches if they have wrecked my team within the rules of the game?

A game where you keep track of your pieces from game to game is, by its very function, not equal. If coach A gets 20 SPPs in his first game and coach B only gets 10, should coach B retire the team because A already has an unfair advantage? If coach B puts a pair of niggling injuries on coach A's blitzers on a lucky Pitch Invasion to start the opening match of the season, should A say 'What do I care? I'll just retire the team!'? What about if coach A wins by a margin of 5-1? Should coach B say 'I don't like how I can't play defense against Elves with Humans. Time to hang this team up.'?

No way. You overcome your bad luck. You play through your own faults. A coach who is strict wins, losses, and strategy, like you, wants as many advantages in your favor so you can get the W. A coach like me, who consistantly plays against opponents with a TR 50 points above his own, plays for the challenge.

See for yourself:
http://www.oldboysleague.com/bbadmin/coach.php?coach=17

THAT is glory in Blood Bowl. Overcoming adversity, not trashing your team because they have a rough start.

No, I don't expect to convince you. You're too set in your ways.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:05 pm

Indeed, this game is supposed to make fun (you should enjoy your games). As long as you do not spoil the fun for others, like quitting in the middle of a league season, play and manage your team as you like. But nobody should be surprised to lose "street credibility" in his local BB community when he/she turns up with a new team every week bc the last match has been lost.

Post by **Dave** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:08 pm

I think it is also part of the challenge to bring the team through rough weather..

This is not saying that disbanding a team is not right. I can understand it in some occasions, but for me bringing a team through is also a lot of fun.

(I won't start about my Welf Team)

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:24 pm

Even if you're scheduled to play a full season, i have no problem at all with it. Retire them, start a new team, and play the rest of the season with those instead. Some people in my league have done it before, it's perfectly fine.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:35 pm

I can see both sides of the coin here. I'd say in a scheduled league it's definitely not fair but in an open challenge league I don't really see a problem. It's stinks when coaches retire their team simply because they lost or didn't get doubles on a skill roll...or didn't get any skill rolls.

But why should a coach in an open format be forced to play his team that just suffered 5 deaths & SI's for a certain number of games? I wouldn't want to force that on anyone. Especially in an open format league where you can start and retire teams at will. Saying a coach in such a league is not allowed to restart after a disasterous start up is the same as forcing a veteran team to retire at 175 TR!

So, Cervidal, just how long is long enough to run a team that suffers a catastrophic first match? How long would force the coach to play the team in an open format league?

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:40 pm

It comes down to fun. If the coach in question isn't having fun then there is no point continuiing with that team.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:43 pm

Well said, Anthony.

Post by **Dave** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:31 pm

no forcing anywhere, just the fun of surviving with a team

Everyone is free to choose in our league (at least if I have to say anything about it)

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:39 pm

I certainly wouldn't mind the challenge of bringing back a half dead team. In fact I have one

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:10 pm

I've done it too, and it can be alot of fun but the point is nobody sould be forced to do it!

I picked a lizardman team becuase I wanted to learn something new. I already know how to play conservative and save money to repair a crippled team. I shouldn't be forced into that.

And, BTW, nobody answered my question.

How long should a coach, in an open format league, be forced to play a team that has a catastrophic first match?

If he is forced to play them for the rest of the seeason should other coaches be able to start mid term?

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:28 pm

I've never seen an unplayable team. I've seen some pretty ravaged teams in my lifetime. I've coached some pretty beaten up teams as recently as in the last year. Sotek's Wrath, for example, played its first ten games without being able to field a full 11 players on the pitch, several of them with fewer than eight players, and the team now sits near the top of the league.

Retiring a team because of a bad stretch in an open league makes as little sense as in a closed league. If teams are coming and going, that means your beaten up squad will have the chance to recover and build up against other low TR teams that enter the league.

The reason I can't directly answer your question, Pariah, is because, in an open league, you can't normally force anyone to play a team. Most open format leagues allow a coach to have multiple teams at once. If one of your teams hits a wall, you can always choose to not play them in favor of one of your other teams.

Post by **Dave** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:30 pm

With my Welf team, I had more fatalities than our league's 'Fling team. (also mine btw)

They have climbed from a lowest five players attending a match (6, but my Dancer niggled, the tosser) to 12 available for next match.

A killer Orc team...

We'll see

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:41 pm

Cervidal wrote:I've never seen an unplayable team. I've seen some pretty ravaged teams in my lifetime. I've coached some pretty beaten up teams as recently as in the last year. Sotek's Wrath, for example, played its first ten games without being able to field a full 11 players on the pitch, several of them with fewer than eight players, and the team now sits near the top of the league.

That's great. I did the same thing with goblins and enjoyed it. Doesn't mean that's always what I want to do.

Cervidal wrote:Retiring a team because of a bad stretch in an open league makes as little sense as in a closed league. If teams are coming and going, that means your beaten up squad will have the chance to recover and build up against other low TR teams that enter the league.

You are saying that it is a cheap strategy to retire a crippled team. If nobody retires them then are not teams "coming and going".

Cervidal wrote:The reason I can't directly answer your question, Pariah, is because, in an open league, you can't normally force anyone to play a team. Most open format leagues allow a coach to have multiple teams at once. If one of your teams hits a wall, you can always choose to not play them in favor of one of your other teams.

You are saying that retiring ateam is not valid strategy or that it;s cheap. So in an open format how long should a coach run a crippled team? Forever? until it reaches the top? What if it never recovers?

Cervidal wrote: If one of your teams hits a wall, you can always choose to not play them in favor of one of your other teams.

#1 No you can't. They will be challenged by jackals looking for easy wins. and...
#2 Even if you could choose to just not play them why is that better than starting over? So you are saying that if I am allowed 2 teams and one of them gets crunched in it's first game and next game can only field 7 players I should just leave it alone and never play it or start a new team?
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.[/quote]

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:43 pm

Darkson wrote:I dunno, if my lord died in my MBBL team I've a "lesser" Vamp lined up to take his place, but there again, I did start with 3 or 4 lessers (didn't trust the thralls.)

yeah but he will always be a lesser vamp. your team is now not as good as other vampire teams.

toss the team and start over

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:46 pm

Mirascael wrote: right i agree totally...no point continuing the team when the lord dies no matter WHAT is left. it will forever be a lesser team.

Wes, one of your lesser vampires is automatically promoted to become the new lord in case your former lord dies![/quote]

yes but he won't ever be nearly as good...all he does is lose the neg skill. for a team designed so heavily around 1 player that's a big deal.

why continue with such a team? another vampire team of the same tr, who hasn't lost his vamp lord, is now superior to yours.