Cyanide releases their Khorne Roster

[Khrage]

Oh wow, yeah that is way under performing! Keep him for the dwarf game at least...give him one last chance to make it worth his TV. But honestly, I would consider dropping him off the roster depending on the TV of the other teams in your league, mainly since your Heralds seem to be picking up the slack. But if he is fun then who cares if he is a TV drag.

[Nephron]

My team has the highest TV in my group (especially since there are a 3 or so new teams in the group) at 1850, so I pretty much have Inducements against me every game.

[Nephron]

Hi guys,

I played the 6th match of this season last night against dwarves. For his Inducements he got a Hafling Chef, a Wizard and a DirtyPlayer Loner. I won 2:1

I received and scored in Turn 5 or 6. In turn 8 he had the chance to score, after I downed his ballcarrier a few fields away from my endzone. He need the following rolls: Dodge(3+), 2GFI, 2GFI + Pickup +Throw and Catch. He did it all without a RR.

Luckily I was able to score to the 2:1 final score in the second half. I lost in the CAS department (2:3). I almost lost my Bloodthirster (-1AV) but he regenerated. As it is, I only have a MNG on my last Level 1 Cultist.

The next time marks halftime for the league. My opponent will be another Norseteam. Again I have to face Inducements, but not a many as the last few matches. He "only" has 2 players that could be problematic. He got a "thrower" berserker with +AG StrongArm and Accurate. Strange skilling but it opens up a pretty solid throwing option for the team. The other player is his BigGuy. He had 2 doubles and went for Block, Dodge. Also has MB. I think my main focus will be getting that beast off the pitch.

I'll let you know how it turns out
So far I am picking up. After loosing the first two matches I now won 4 in a row. Hopefully I can keep it up.

Bye,
Nephron

[Khrage]

That really has got to be a painful sight to the opposing coach. You finally get the Str 5 AV 9 claw monster off the pitch with a casualty, just to see him regenerate and come back in the next drive. Ouch.

Congrats on the win streak! Sadly, I am on the otherside of a streak right now with my guys, lost the last 3 in a row. Keep getting out casualtied (somewhere in the neighborhood of a 4-1 average) and having snake-bit luck scoring. Failed a gfi for a score in each of the last 3 games, one of which resulted in my guy KOing himself and leaving the pitch for the rest of the game.

I think Khorne is especially vulnerable to going down on players due to the need to buddy up for frenzy blocks. Normally on a team, one man down is a problem, but not a major one. On some teams (cough wood elf cough) it isn't even a problem. On Khorne though, when you almost never have safe 1 on 1 block due to the pushing, losing that extra assist means you can get overpowered really quickly.

I still love the team though.

[Nephron]

Hi guys,

a last update for this year

My win streak ended in match 7 but only just. I played 1:1 against a Norse team.
The biggest problem in this match was, that I played nearly the entire match with less players on the pitch than my opponent. Despite having mostly AV7 I couldnt get a lot of Norse players of the pitch and he got in a few CAS and KOs. Out of 10 rolls for my KO players, only 2 succeded throughout the entire match. I constantly had at least 3-5 players in the box.
Thats why I didnt manage a win^^

Unfortunately my AV7 "thrower" got hit again with -AV so I kicked him off the team now. Luckily one PitFighter Cultist is at 14SPP now, so I should get a SureHands pretty soon again.

After 21 matches, my team is developed like this:

PFC 14SPP Block
PFC 5SPP
PFC 23SPP Block, Guard
PFC 0SPP
PFC 22SPP Block, Leader
PFC 19SPP Block, Tackle
Bloodletter 27SPP Block, Dodge
Bloodletter 13SPP Block
Bloodletter 2SPP
Bloodletter 25SPP Block, Dodge, Guard
Bloodthirster 12SPP Mighty Blow
Herald 42SPP Mighty Blow, Tackle, Block
Herald 37 SPP Mighty Blow, Jump Up, Piling On

RR: 3
Assistand Coach: 1
Cheerleader: 1
FF: 6

TV: 1800
Treasury: 370 000

The league will continue in early January and my next opponent will be the Undead team that beat me in the second match this season. So far they are at 2nd place and haven't been beaten yet. Hopefully I will be able to change that

My team is picking up this season, with a lot of Block and a few MB players. As soon as I get a few players off the pitch I can work the Frenzy "magic"
Luckily no teams with a lot of Guard yet.

How do you think I should develop my team further?
For the Bloodletters I am thinking about skipping Dodge and going straight for Guard, because Tackle is becoming a lot more common by now, but I am not sure about it.
So far I would favour Tackle on the PFCs over Dauntless after Block, because most teams in my group this seasons are full of strength 3 teams. What do you guys think.

After playing Khorne for a while now I think their main problem is, that it is really hard to get out of contact when they need to. In conclusion they get hit pretty often, which is why I think that despite having a lot of AV8 the teams feels pretty squishy at times. After 21 matches I inflicted 41CAS and got 45 (21:17 this season so far).
Do you think there might be a way to better handle getting hit? I often have to rely on my 2 players with Dodge to make a TD, because often they are the only ones not in contact with an enemy.

I think I will not build another thrower (unless I get an AG+). In the beginning I had or wanted to throw quite a lot, but somehow the team plays differently now which usually leads to more of a running game for me. Throwing is just used as a last resort.
What are your thougths on this area?

Well that should be it for now and I look forward to your answers

Bye,
Nephron

[MKL]

In a hurry, so bear with my brevity:

-I agree with you about the thrower: when you are young and desperate you need to throw here and there... Once the team develop it's a rare necessity.
-Guard. You need more. A lot more. 1800 with 2 Guards is woefully inadequate imo
-to keep away with Ag3... Well, good idea, yet not easy to implement. Masses dodge (amazon) is out of question, masses fend isn't easy to achieve. Then there is the dwarf's way: a lot of Guards and keep players one near the other. One block, the other is free.
Not easy, but doable here and there, and you need Guards anyway
-once you got a lot of Guards, Dauntless is less important.
-and finally... Did I say Guard? :p

[neverworking]

I think its smart to go Guard before dodge on the demons. My team became a lot easier to control once I had 4 guards. The mass frenzy always has me wanting guard in more locations.

I believe fend on PFC's will help a great deal, the freedom to move a few more players each turn will make the frenzy situations more manageable. Tackle is not a critical skill given the extra dice frenzy should give you. Its good to have, but you don't need much.

I am currently of the mindset that the PFCs may be better off taking wrestle instead of block. A few extra players down on the ground eases the challenges of frenzy. If your opponent has to take a both down, that will be one more player you can maneuver for the assist in your turn.

I agree the team is much more fragile than AV8 would seem, and the other players I know have similar experience as well. I am certain its because the forced follow ups result in this team taking more blocks than a normal team would take. Fend should help offset some of this, as would side step on the demons.

[sann0638]

Quick Khornate question - has anyone made a picture of the roster that looks like the rosters in the rulebook?

[dode74]

With Cyanide's fluff:


With Tom and my preferred fluff:

[sann0638]

Perfect, thanks.

[Smeborg]

I seem to be struggling after 9 games with Khorne (tabletop open league). Although difficult at the beginning, they were quite sporting against rookie and near-rookie teams. I managed 4 wins, a draw and a loss in the first 6 games. However, playing against teams that have started to develop, I have lost the last 3 games straight (Amazons, Humans, Nurgle). I felt hopelessly outclassed in these games. To be fair, my dice in these games were not exactly "blessed by Nuffle".

The Khorne team's powers of recovery are poor. If something goes wrong (e.g. they fail to pick up the ball, or they concede an early turnover), then there is just too much for them to do on their following turn (too many dice to roll).

An abiding weakness of the team is their offense (they start with no ball skills, they are all MA6). Their defense is OK, but does not compensate for their poor offense (unlike, say, Nurgle). The defense is good at forcing the opponent to score rather than stall, it is not so good at getting the ball for a turnover score.

With no starting re-roll skills, I find that I sometimes blow all the team re-rolls at the beginning of the half (I have 3RR and Leader). In the last 2 games I managed a combined total of 2 SPPs! Here is the team after 9 games:

Herald: +ST (9 SPPs)
Herald: Block [Niggle] (7)
Bloodletter: +ST, Block (16)
Bloodletter: Block (9)
Bloodletter: Block [mng] (9)
Bloodletter: Block (7)
Pit Fighter: Guard (12)
Pit Fighter: Leader (11)
Pit Fighter: Wrestle (8)
Pit Fighter: Sure Hands (7)
Pit Fighter: - (5)
Pit Fighter: - (0)
Pit Fighter: - (0)
3RR, 5FF, 1AC, 1CL, Apoth, TV: 142 (152 when the mng player returns)

Of course I have to ask if I have made development errors. I have certainly made one, which was that I should have taken Sure Hands right at the beginning, possibly even at the expense of Guard (doubles) on a Pit Fighter (Sure Hands could be on a Bloodletter, though). The other issue of course is whether I should have a Bloodthirster. I am saving for one now, to see what happens. But I'm not overly optimistic, I feel the TV is bloated as it is. I struggle with 13 players sometimes, in the last game I was down to 9 players for the second half. But the main lesson, I think, is that Khorne need to develop a "good" dedicated ball handler right away. This is counter-intuitive, I yearn instead for Block or Wrestle on everybody. But it would seem to be the only way to complement their playstyle (it's little use stopping a stall and forcing your opponent to score early, if you can't score back). Another idea would be to start with Dodge on the Bloodletters (to give the team some early re-roll skills).

The teams looks OK on paper, and development is pleasantly well-rounded, but they don't seem to deliver the performance implied by their TV. Of course, I may just have had a bad run of "luck".

All the best.

[Nephron]

Hi Smeborg,

I know your problem. With no real skills that help with blocking you burn through RR fast if nuffle doesn't like you :/
Your main problem might be the lack of Block on your Cultists. Your deamons all look pretty well so far, but the Cultists really soak up RR I think. At least with your Bloodletters you don't have to follow up.
I struggled with that too in the beginning, but now I am at a point where most of my players have Block and there isn't a lot of Guard yet on my opponents.
I am not sure if I would have taken SureHands over Guard. The double is just too valuable on the Cultists in my opinion. Seems like it did backfire for you but given the choice I would go for Guard again.
It should get a lot better once all your players get Block and a few of your Demons get a second skill. The BT might add to that. Of course he is a huge TV bloat, but since he is the only player with STR above 3, he usually can attract a lot of attention which might help with your offensive.

It also might have been because of your opponents. Frenzy is kind of a substitute for Tackle but often it still doesnt help. Did you get a lot of Downs against the Amazon team? And Nurgle is pretty difficult because he has the upper hand with STR4+ players. I struggle against those teams the most. Playing against Lizards with a not so developed team is my personal nightmare ^^

What is your development plan for the next skills?

And to keep you updated on my league team. After coming back from "winter break" I played against 2nd place in my group an Undead team. The hadn't lost a game so far this season.
I won 2:1 (2:2 CAS). There was a lot of luck involved. I got really lucky in the first three rounds, by getting both his mummies of the field (1CAS 1KO). He still had Ramtut, but I managed to score pretty safe. Unfortunately his mummy came back and I could not stop his offensive. I KOed a few more of his players and managed to score the winning TD in the end.
Got a Niggling on a Cultist and wanted to fire him, but he rolled an 11. So now I have an AGI4 player and I think I should keep him, despite the Niggling. What do you guys think.

Yesterday I had the next match. It was against a Norse team. To keep it short I pretty much steamrolled him. Won 3:0 with 8:0 CAS. 4 of those went to my PO Herald. Also got 4 Ups out of the match. I got my second Blodge, Guard Bloodletter now.
A Bloodletter with Block rolled a 10 (no double). I am not sure what to give him. Before nowing the roll I thought about skipping Dodge and going straight for Guard, since Tackle is becoming more common now and Dodge will loose some use soon. Now with the option for +MA or +AV I am not sure if I should go for one of them. I really dont like that for 2nd skill for some reason. I think Dodge or Guard would be more usefull.
What are your thoughts on that?

Next up is another Norse team, I will keep you updated!

Bye,
Nephron

[neverworking]

For what its worth, my team became remarkably more stable once I had 4 players with guard (I picked up both the 3rd and 4th player in same game, so its unclear which was the turning point). I too have held off on the bloodthirster so its reasonably comparable. I do think its worth taking guard as the first skill on a couple of players for this reason. The Heralds and the Demons do have juggernaut to fall back on when blitzing. I wouldnt do it with all of them, but I do think it is worth it on some if you guard total is low.

I also support going wrestle on the pit fighters (at least some) as I think it is easier to manage the frenzy with a few less upright players. Sadly, all of mine have died.

The team needs plenty of guard, and will eventually need some dauntless too, but if you do commit to putting guard on your strength access players early, I think you can choose to pick other doubles skills on the pit fighters. I have found the one I have with mighty blow has been extremely valuable to the team and I have no regrets bypassing guard on him, but only because I have usually had enough guard elsewhere. My current roster is follows:

Herald: Dodge, Guard (23 SPPs)
Demon: Block, + St (16)
Demon: Guard (15)
Demon: +MV, Dodge, Guard (32)
Demon: Block, Guard (19)
Cultist: Block, MB (29)
Cultist: Block, +ST (26)
Cultist: Block, Fend (24)
Cultist: +AG (9)
Cultist: (5)
Cultist: (0)
Cultist: -AG, MNG (5)
4RR, Apoth, 5FF. TV1600 + 60k MNG player.

I had been using my move boosted demon as the primary ball carrier, but last game I got the AG boosted cultist, so that will likely be changing going forward.

[Smeborg]

Nuffle works in mysterious ways. After suffering the "blessings" of Nuffle for 3 games in a row, I had perhaps my jammiest ever game of BB, against near-rookie (3-skill) Undead. Here are some highlights:

- Mummy with Block takes a blitz action, rolls a 1 on a go-for-it, then rolls doubleskulls, gifting me my first TD.

- On turn 8 a Ghoul fails his second go-for-it to the end zone, so I remain 1-0 up.

- 2nd half: the Undead score in 6 turns, leaving me 3 turns in which to score the winning TD. My Pit Fighter with Sure Hands fails to pick up the ball, leaving me very exposed. Then my opponent's Lightning Bolt fails (but my opponent still graps the ball and zooms upfield with 4 players). On the last turn of the game, a Ghoul fails his first go-for-it to the end zone, the crowd throw the ball upfield 7 or 8 squares, I manage to clear away a couple of opponents, pick the ball up, hand-off, go-for-it twice, pass, catch and score, all without using the last precious team re-roll.

So I managed to win a game 2-1, when even a draw would have been lucky (a 1-2 or 1-3 loss would have been fair).

The team continues to develop apace, despite losing another player (a Herald) to retirement (Niggle, -1AG). Here they all are:

Herald: +ST (9 SPPs)
Herald: - (0)
Bloodletter: +ST, Block (16)
Bloodletter: Block (11)
Bloodletter: Block (9)
Bloodletter: Block (9)
Pit Fighter: Guard (12)
Pit Fighter: Leader (11)
Pit Fighter: Sure Hands (10)
Pit Fighter: Wrestle (8)
Pit Fighter: Wrestle (7)
Pit Fighter: Wrestle (6)
Pit Fighter: - (0)
3RR, 6FF, 1AC, 1CL, Apoth, TV: 157

I have to say that Wrestle on a Pit Fighter (there was only 1 such in this last game) is simply outstanding. It takes no result blocks out of the equation and enables the Pit Fighter to clear opponents out of the way, even when uphill blocks are required. This is especially useful if they are marking a cage or in a scrum. My thinking for generic Pit Fighter development has firmed up, and is now: Wrestle, Dauntless. Unfortunately you have to first get Pit Fighters with Leader and Sure Hands. I am still inclined to take Wrestle over Guard (thanks, though, Nephron, for the advice).

We will see what happens with 3 Wrestlers. At least I will have a good defensive LoS.

The team heads into a cup competition now. After that I may well put out a rookie Khorne team in our main league. This time I will start with:

Boodthirster
4 Bloodletters
6 Pit Fighters
2 RR

I am starting to think that the Bloodthirster is necessary, if only for psychological reasons (and of course he will help maintain parity of numbers). We will see, he is dashed expensive, playing against Wizards will likely be the order of the day. I am reluctant to play with less than 3RR + Leader, but I will have time to see how they play before deciding to buy the last RR. 13 players is a likely final roster (a bit short, but TV needs must be met somehow).

All the best.

[Rolex]

I think it's worth mentioning that on Sunday the 12th of this month the Deamons of Khorne won their first live (non NAF) tourney, thank to their outstanding coach andrea-parrella (the same guy that is organizing World Cup 2015).

I almost did it a few months ago, but the tie-breaker made me the runner-up.
I'm now leaving my online league (DeathBB) DOK team after 3 seasons (and 2 consecutive finals lost at overtime).

I think DOK are a fabulous at teaching you to develop your attack and defense skill and to make your tactics on the spot.

On the tactics I must say that IMO the DOK are "The Bloodthirster and his merry men".
He's the man. Never leave home without him.