Here you go fellow Blood bowlers,New rumor on our set!

[daloonieshaman]

For those readers who think GW will do nothing with a 3rd party, just keep moving along as this RUMOR speculation will only continue to piss you off, while we EXPLORE a path that is not unrealistic in the world of money.

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Fantasy Flight has been licensing an increasing number of GW IPs, and while some of the things they've made have been peripheral products (ie, BB Team Manager) some have been primary replacements (Talisman, WHFRPG). If (and obviously its a pretty big "if") we see more official Blood Bowl production in terms of the tabletop game, it seems pretty reasonable to assume it'd be in the form of a Fantasy Flight product.

Man I missed that FF already has a partial licensing agreement for BB
With GW shelving SG, they just rent out the rest of the license to continue a revenue source for doing nothing.

FF then would have the freedom to make changes in the game such as board size or mechanic including the length of the game.
You can still use NAF (or some such) without joining the FF party. Just tell them to buggar off while you keep an independent database (NAF) and do not have to deal with their pansy tournament restrictions and maintain world status.
I do not play a ton of tournaments to try and see if I am the best or worst player in the game. I enjoy the freedom of playing gents from around the world whom I would be never able to play. NAF allows them to keep their score against me. Most importantly I do it for the highs and lows of the game <failed TD GFI>"I hate this %&*$ game", <1 turn TD> "Best game EVER".
I enjoy the freedom that NAF gives me to run my events and I do not have to worry about dealing with a FLGS for validity (as if 1/2 of them have any room for a BB tournament) or sticking with a small list of rules variants. Takes the spirit out of the individual Tournament (almost all current 2 day events)

just me blowing (logical) smoke out my *%&

[Daht]

I would think a 3rd party updating the game and adding "official" convention events and/or 'national' type tournaments would not need to hurt the NAF at all, if the NAF did support the current version of the game I doubt we'd see much of a drop in what are now the standard NAF tournaments (not in the US at least where they aren't so heavy to begin with).

If FFG were doing this I see no reason they wouldn't work with the NAF as a record-keeping "unnoficial" (as in won't affect their company-run national tourneys) stats hub.

If they radically change the game and NAF decides to stick with crp it would hurt FFG short term very slightly, and the NAF long term majorly. Ideally we would keep the tourney scene we have, the "blood bowl majors" would be more an honorary title while FFG sets up official tourneys and championships of their own. I know at least in the southwest USA it would not be a burden for us to have a few more events available..

Gen Con is days away, so very soon we can either commence with the internet raging over the new changes, or finally pop this years "new bb coming this year" balloon. With all the rumormongering about it if they don't at least announce something at GenCon we can safely assume it's false or a long way off.

[JT-Y]

I'm not arguing Mike. Don't flatter yourself. Simply pointing out that you could do worse than follow your own advice and don't read things that will upset you. If you don't like being disagreed with or corrected then maybe the Internet is not the place for you.

Now please, carry on with the wishlisting. It's funny.

[VoodooMike]

You can still use NAF (or some such) without joining the FF party. Just tell them to buggar off while you keep an independent database (NAF) and do not have to deal with their pansy tournament restrictions and maintain world status.

Other than having a world championship and some regional qualifying events for that, the FF Organized Play thing doesn't really impose any sort of structure on their games. The "Game Night" kits are just offered as a way to keep your events of choice somewhat standardized such that it's easier to attract gamers to them, since they'll know what to expect in terms of rules and organization. The OP system doesn't actually conflict with the NAF (this is, again, assuming what we're discussing would come to be) - the NAF could continue to hold tournaments and continue to keep stats... and if they used the Game Day package setup for theirs, then it would give the level of uniformity of play that tends to be missing in the existing BB climate.

Having multiple championships is not a problem for BB.. there are multiple cups to be won, afterall!

If FFG were doing this I see no reason they wouldn't work with the NAF as a record-keeping "unnoficial" (as in won't affect their company-run national tourneys) stats hub.

I'm not sure I can see FF having any interest in directly working with the NAF, but I don't think they'd end up conflicting with one another in any way. If anything, FF's OP setup would bring in new players for any and all such events... OP seems to be focused on just getting people out there to play together moreso than anything else.

If they radically change the game and NAF decides to stick with crp it would hurt FFG short term very slightly, and the NAF long term majorly. Ideally we would keep the tourney scene we have, the "blood bowl majors" would be more an honorary title while FFG sets up official tourneys and championships of their own. I know at least in the southwest USA it would not be a burden for us to have a few more events available..

I cannot imagine the NAF refusing to focus on the most modern BB set available, regardless.

Gen Con is days away, so very soon we can either commence with the internet raging over the new changes, or finally pop this years "new bb coming this year" balloon. With all the rumormongering about it if they don't at least announce something at GenCon we can safely assume it's false or a long way off.

I can't imagine it'd be this year.. I would have figured that GW would warn Cyanide of a game change prior to it happening, and that Cyanide would not want to post another CRP-based game at the same time as CRP lost relevance... assuming Cyanide's BB2 is CRP based in the first place. If BB2 was based on an upcoming FF product, the FF logo would be on the BB2 video, I would imagine.

Of course, maybe GW just respects Cyanide as much as everyone else does and doesn't much care <shrug> who knows? I'd still be surprised if there's any BB-related announcment at GenCon... but it'd be a pleasant surprise. Any news is better than no news (again).

I'm not arguing Mike. Don't flatter yourself. Simply pointing out that you could do worse than follow your own advice and don't read things that will upset you. If you don't like being disagreed with or corrected then maybe the Internet is not the place for you.

So true... and its pretty obvious that I hate interpersonal conflict, so I appreciate your re-gifting of that advice! It's becoming increasingly apparent to me that you and I have real potential to be best buddies - if only from us bonding over the shared belief in the wisdom of the things I say. I only hope that Jesus does not call you home before our budding bromance has time to bloom. Stay strong: my prayers are with you!

[jdmofo]

If any company licenses BB from GW then I imagine they'd get everything that goes with it - the names of the star players etc. That would no doubt include the names of the 'majors' - Spike Magazine Trophy etc. The World Championship (run by the new licensee) would doubtless become the Blood Bowl again and they'd be able to do regional championships with the names of the other majors I reckon.

It wouldn't mean that the existing majors would have to end, but would probably mean a name change for them in the same way that the Blood Bowl became the NAF Championship?

And on the same subject, how many races would have to change their names? Skaven become Ratmen, Choas become Cultists? etc.

[jdmofo]

...And I don't see anybody licensing BB unless they are able to produce minis. If GW were unwilling to let anybody else produce minis for BB then I doubt anybody would want the license.

[VoodooMike]

If any company licenses BB from GW then I imagine they'd get everything that goes with it - the names of the star players etc. That would no doubt include the names of the 'majors' - Spike Magazine Trophy etc. The World Championship (run by the new licensee) would doubtless become the Blood Bowl again and they'd be able to do regional championships with the names of the other majors I reckon.

It wouldn't mean that the existing majors would have to end, but would probably mean a name change for them in the same way that the Blood Bowl became the NAF Championship?

While I'm certain they'd be able to run with any of the trademarked names (they certainly already do that with the other IP they've licensed) I don't see it being an issue with tournaments.. call your tournament anything you want. Trademarks are for specific uses of a phrase or image, not a universal ownership of that thing... which is why you can talk about Blood Bowl to your friends without it being a violation (despite using the term which is trademarked). You couldn't publish a game under that name, though.

And on the same subject, how many races would have to change their names? Skaven become Ratmen, Choas become Cultists? etc.

None? In FF's WHFRPG and in the BB Team Manager game, they're still called Skaven and Chaos. Of those only Skaven are trademarked as far as I know: the term "Chaos" is a bit general. The only time you'd have to be careful with those things is if you were trying to publish things without GW's permission... then it'd be a bad idea to call your rat people "Skaven" or to use the GW-designed symbols for the races (which is what got Cyanide in the first place).

...And I don't see anybody licensing BB unless they are able to produce minis. If GW were unwilling to let anybody else produce minis for BB then I doubt anybody would want the license.

Talisman has little plastic minis, so obviously FF isn't totally prohibited from creating such things... though I don't think FF produces any minis-sold-separately for any game based on a GW IP, just their X-Wing game. The easiest route would be to go the way they went with WHFRPG, which is flat cardboard punch-outs with bases. You can fit a lot of those into a box by just putting in a couple of stacked sheets. Might even work better for people learning the game if it had the position name at the bottom of each punch out as well as a picture.

Whatever they decided, most existing players would just keep using the same minis they always had, I suspect. Trying to sell people groups of minis would probably not be worthwhile at least until they had a good sized group of totally new players.

[nobby]

just as an aside, FF licensing means that they can produce mini's but not that are compatible with GW itself. (no heroic 30mm or whatever scale GW are deciding to use nowadays, but busts like in Heresy are fine)

[jdmofo]

Cardboard cutouts with stands are not gonna sell a new BB nox set to existing fans or to new players. That would be a none-starter IMO. Who would pick up a game in a hobby store or toy shop that had that? Nothing other than minis of the same scale is gonna cut it. If a licensee were told they couldn't produce minis that are compatible with existing ones, they would be crazy to invest any money into getting the IP. For at least half of players the minis are just as (if not more) important than the game itself.

[daloonieshaman]

JD
2 things

1 the scale of BB has changed at least twice
2 heroic minis and 30mm are universally different as there has been an established method of measuring figs WAY before GW was a thought. to be different GW was forced to either make their own scale and method of using the, or use the standard and call them 30mm
3... Most of us would run to purstore if FF made changes such as board size

4...1st ed BB used cutouts

[VoodooMike]

just as an aside, FF licensing means that they can produce mini's but not that are compatible with GW itself. (no heroic 30mm or whatever scale GW are deciding to use nowadays, but busts like in Heresy are fine)

That's an interesting factoid. I'm not sure I can see FF being interested in getting into the minis market either way... and BB would be a bad launching point for that. If BB had been a good vessel for selling minis, GW wouldn't have treated it like the red-headed stepchild.

Cardboard cutouts with stands are not gonna sell a new BB nox set to existing fans or to new players. That would be a none-starter IMO. Who would pick up a game in a hobby store or toy shop that had that? Nothing other than minis of the same scale is gonna cut it. If a licensee were told they couldn't produce minis that are compatible with existing ones, they would be crazy to invest any money into getting the IP. For at least half of players the minis are just as (if not more) important than the game itself.

I can't disagree more. All they need to do is make their version of the game use new custom dice and possibly custom cards, and in order to be involved in the game you need your own box set. I have no interest in the crappy minis they might include in another BB set - I (and likely most existing fans) have bought many, many minis piecemeal based on what I like the looks of, and painted up my teams over the years... and I'm not going to dump off my vastly superior minis to grope at whatever new garbage GW or FF tossed my way, especially since there's no guarantee it'd be the teams I play in the first place.

Blood Bowl isn't going to be a great platform for selling minis... it wasn't for GW and there's no reason it would be for anyone else. Instead it's the boards, dice, cards, rulesets, bits, pieces, yadda yadda in box sets that is going to sell. If you can't play the game without it, you'll buy the box so you are capable of playing the game. I would. First day it hit the shelves.

4...1st ed BB used cutouts

Heh, I'd forgotten about that. The cutouts were terrible compared to the punch-outs that FF uses, too.

[jdmofo]

JD
2 things

You mean 4 ?

1 the scale of BB has changed at least twice

Yeah but very minimal changes. I have minis from every generation of BB and they all fit pretty well together. Apart from my witch elves towering above the rest of my 1st ed Dark Elves that is . When I said a change of scale would be a bad idea I meant a dramatic change of scale, a few mm either way wouldn't be a biggy.

3... Most of us would run to purstore if FF made changes such as board size

Eh? Dunno what you mean, but if anybody released a new BB with a different board, it would be (grudgingly) adopted pretty quickly by most I think.

4...1st ed BB used cutouts

Indeed it did but going back to those dark days would not be a good move, BB has moved on since then!

[jdmofo]

I have no interest in the crappy minis they might include in another BB set

You're presuming they'd be crappy, but that depends on who took on the license. FF may not be a mini company but the figs in the Gears of War game show they could make something reasonable (not up to the standards of GW or some other 3rd party stuff, but interesting).

I, like you, would obviously not bin my current figs; but I would be interested to see new minis, as would a lot of BB players I think (if the minis were half way decent and resonably priced). Give me the option of a plastic team I dont currently have at a real cheap price and I'd be tempted.

But mainly what I was saying was that in order to capture new players (which anyone taking on BB would have to do), FF or whoever else would need the minis in the box as a selling point. Whether or not they could make good money out of selling minis after the initial box set is another matter but they would need at least 2 teams to put in the box.

I dunno if you've seen BattleBall (me and my 4 year old love a game of that), but the game itself looked awesome on the shelf cos you immediately think "Whoa! Look at all those cool minis!" That pretty much sold me the game and I definately wouldn't have looked twice if it had cutouts instead.

[VoodooMike]

You're presuming they'd be crappy, but that depends on who took on the license. FF may not be a mini company but the figs in the Gears of War game show they could make something reasonable (not up to the standards of GW or some other 3rd party stuff, but interesting).

No, I'm not saying that they'd be objectively bad minis - I'm saying that the chances that they'd be to my particular tastes as compared to the minis I've bought from various sources over the years for my teams, and that they'd be for the teams I play in the first place, is so laughably slim as to not be worthy of consideration. Maybe they'd make some swell human and orc minis... wee.. I don't need any of those, so I don't care if they're good or bad. I don't need a slot on "Hoarders: Minis Edition" - I buy minis to suit my needs, and I'm not really desperate for any particular minis at the moment.

I, like you, would obviously not bin my current figs; but I would be interested to see new minis, as would a lot of BB players I think (if the minis were half way decent and resonably priced). Give me the option of a plastic team I dont currently have at a real cheap price and I'd be tempted.

Sure, if they do it they do it. I think there's sufficient selection available from various companies that I'm not too worried either way, but sure... options are nice. I don't treat BB minis like hummel figurines that I need to own every single example of, though.

But mainly what I was saying was that in order to capture new players (which anyone taking on BB would have to do), FF or whoever else would need the minis in the box as a selling point. Whether or not they could make good money out of selling minis after the initial box set is another matter but they would need at least 2 teams to put in the box.

I don't think this is true, actually. Any time a new football-type board game comes out, people say "oh, so its a blood bowl clone?" - Blood Bowl is the de facto standard for the game type due to having been around since the building of the pyramids. It has brand power. Likewise, its not like people are lacking in options for minis. There's some seriously great fantasy football minis out there from 3rd party suppliers. Anyone who takes up the game seriously will end up owning their own team of minis. Anyone who isn't serious about it won't care if they're playing with pennies with numbers drawn on in permanent marker.

I dunno if you've seen BattleBall (me and my 4 year old love a game of that), but the game itself looked awesome on the shelf cos you immediately think "Whoa! Look at all those cool minis!" That pretty much sold me the game and I definately wouldn't have looked twice if it had cutouts instead.

Battleball had no branding power - it was a darkhorse... so it needed to catch your attention. I'm not sure BB needs that now, but as I say, I'm not insisting they use cutouts, just saying that they can save themselves the hassle of going into the minis business with BB by not bothering, and it'll still fly with old players. New players can see what old players are playing, fall in love, and buy a team of minis from Impact or whomever... and BB would march along fine.

[RogueThirteen]

You're presuming they'd be crappy, but that depends on who took on the license. FF may not be a mini company but the figs in the Gears of War game show they could make something reasonable (not up to the standards of GW or some other 3rd party stuff, but interesting).

No, I'm not saying that they'd be objectively bad minis - I'm saying that the chances that they'd be to my particular tastes as compared to the minis I've bought from various sources over the years for my teams, and that they'd be for the teams I play in the first place, is so laughably slim as to not be worthy of consideration. Maybe they'd make some swell human and orc minis... wee.. I don't need any of those, so I don't care if they're good or bad. I don't need a slot on "Hoarders: Minis Edition" - I buy minis to suit my needs, and I'm not really desperate for any particular minis at the moment.

Just to keep people informed: FFG also produces "Mansions of Madness," "Dust Warfare/Tactics," and "X-Wing:" all three properties have some pretty damn nice miniatures. They're not quite the level of detail you'd find on GW/Citadel metals and they don't have the modularity of GW's plastics, but they offer a taste of what sort of miniatures a "board game company" like FFG can create.

Again, just an update for all those not aware of FFG's solid reputation with miniatures. Nevertheless, I still couldn't see FFG wanting the Blood Bowl license.