Help with gathering some data

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri May 24, 2013 9:36 pm

Hi guys

I'm after some basic numbers to try to get a feel for how large the (active) BB community actually is. Very grateful for any assistance on this - please be assured that my interest in these figures is absolutely non-commercial and benign in every possible way.

1) How many active (renewed or joined in the last 12 months) members does NAF have?
2) How many players in total are in the NAF rankings?
3) How many accounts are registered for Cyanide online?
4) How many TFF accounts have been active in the past 24 months?

I appreciate that these numbers will contain huge overlaps, I'm just looking for some basic numbers (or solid, authoritative estimates).

Thanks very much for any assistance!

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri May 24, 2013 9:41 pm

Think I may have an answer to (2) here:
http://www.thenaf.net/index.php?module= ... &start=311

Is this everyone ever, or has it been cut back? I can see a lot of empty pages, there. Still, 15527 is pretty huge.

Also, when I check out the number of registrants on TFF (not active, though - I'd still be immensely interested in that) I can see that the list ends suddenly at member 6800, who signed up on 3 Dec 2012. I assume there have been registrations in the last six months, is there any publicly available data on this?
http://talkfantasyfootball.org/memberli ... start=6750

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat May 25, 2013 6:32 am

1) About 3000.
2) You should use this ranking: http://naf.talkfantasyfootball.org/coachSingle.html , in the ranking you used each coach may have up to 24 entries.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Sat May 25, 2013 7:50 am

Great, thanks Marc - so 5300+. Any idea on when that was last updated?

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Sat May 25, 2013 8:49 am

3) How many accounts are registered for Cyanide online?

Highest leagueIDs I've seen are in the 1.4million range, but there are only a few of these and the majority are 163k and below. I think (but need to test) that when you delete an account and remake it that it gives you a new account ID number, so there would be a lot of multi-account players in there who restart their account when they properly ragequit. That would reduce the number of players drastically.
So probably in the region of 160-170,000 accounts, assuming they give the player IDs out numerically and not randomly. No idea how many of those are alts, though, and no idea how many are restarted accounts.

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:50 am

Cynaide has about 10 to 20 times more games than fumbbl per day. Not an answer but its a fair amount

sann0638 · Post by **sann0638** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:54 am

NAF newsletter goes to 9000 people, so 9000 people who have ever been NAF members.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:33 am

That's incredible, thanks Mike. And the NAF newsletter is opt-in, correct? So you not only have to be a NAF member to sign up, you also need to actively choose to be involved?

Which suggests that the number of NAF members with a NAF tournament ranking is going to be an absolute maximum of 59, with a realistic estimate somewhere below 50%, right? Wow... that's a shocker.

sann0638 · Post by **sann0638** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:28 am

Opt-out, not opt-in

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:23 pm

Shteve0 wrote:That's incredible, thanks Mike. And the NAF newsletter is opt-in, correct? So you not only have to be a NAF member to sign up, you also need to actively choose to be involved?

Which suggests that the number of NAF members with a NAF tournament ranking is going to be an absolute maximum of 59, with a realistic estimate somewhere below 50%, right? Wow... that's a shocker.

AFAIK, once a member, your NAF rankings will continue to work as normal even if lapsed. The DB does not discriminate if you do not maintain your NAF subscription.

Geggster · Post by **Geggster** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:49 pm

Shteve0 wrote:Which suggests that the number of NAF members with a NAF tournament ranking is going to be an absolute maximum of 59, with a realistic estimate somewhere below 50%, right? Wow... that's a shocker.

I understand that many people sign up as NAF members with no intention, or realistic chance, of getting to a tourney. I imagine a few others have signed up more than once to get extra dice and there is no doubt a few members that have provided more than one email address over time. I think those might be the reasons why the tournament-rated players' list is not reflected in the mailshot numbers.

And the annual NAF membership is at about 2200 per annum at present.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:30 pm

Interesting, thanks Paul. I looked at the accounts the other day, saw that there was year on year growth over the last few years. Do you keep data on how many memberships have lapsed?

I guess I could work it out... if the latest NAF registration numbers are consecutive (ie no skipped number ranges - my NAF number is 19,850) then we're looking at 20,000 or so existing and former users, right?

The reason I was gathering data in the first place was to try and get a hold on how big the BB community really is. The simple answer seems to be that it's bigger than I thought

But it's certainly interesting to see that we're estimating:
- That there have been 20,000 Cyanide users in the past four years or so
- That there have been 20,000 NAF registered users in the past, of which >5,000 have participated in a ranked tournament and >2,000 are current members
- That there are probably around 7500 TFF registered accounts (would love to know how many are zero post)
- No data gathered yet from FUMBBL

So what are we looking at? Probably 35,000 BB players worldwide active in the last decade across all mediums? That's massive.

Interesting stuff.

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:53 pm

Depends on how much overlap there is.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:54 pm

True, and there's bound to be a lot of overlap. Still, bare minimum of 20,000, and there will be many Cyanide players who've never registered for NAF, as well as TT players who haven't engaged in either. No way to know for sure, of course.

Jonny_P · Post by **Jonny_P** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:17 am

Don't forget there are leagues all over the world that have never been "discovered" yet too.

It still amazes me if I find out about a league with a few guys and I ask questions about online forums, NAF, etc and they have no idea what I'm talking about. Plus, they still use the blue rulebook!

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