Stunty Lizard Stars

[Loki]

Hi,

so as to not clog up a tournament thread...

We were discussing the 'non-stunty Stunty Teams' and whats in and out. Two schools of thought

1) No Rats Underworld or No Saurus Lizards means just that so no Skaven star players Fezglitch/Skitter/Glart and no Silibili. Justification - it's in the name they are No Rats or No Saurus.

2) No Rats Underworld or No Suarus Lizards mean no Saurus or Skaven positionals i.e. you still have access to any of the Stars. Justification - as with regular Stunties the Stars can be non-Stunty/non-Big Guys players e.g. Zara for a Flings team.

I think that the consenus in the previous disscussion was leaning towrads 1).

Assuming you are in the 1) camp, for Lizards is it just Silibili thats an issue i.e. can Slann (lottabotttol and Quetzal Leap) and Helmut Wolf be taken in a Stunty Lizards team.

Thoughts...

[lunchmoney]

The SWTC has this to say about it, "Qualifying Stunty teams are Goblins, Halflings, Ogres, Lizards with no Saurus and Underworld with no Skaven." Star players aren't counted, as has been said, 'flings can take Zara. I know the Underworld and Lizards are different, but at the end of the day, by taking no Saurus a lizardman team is just Stunties and a Big Guy. Just like 'flings. So why cant they take a Star Player who isnt Stunty or Big? I don't believe we'll make any exceptions for SWTC. Obviously the TO of each event can say what they like about Stunty Cup that they allow, but these teams qualify for Stunty SWTC.

And I agree

[Darkson]

I think I said no "normal" sized Stars for the ARBBL, because I wanted to err on the side of caution due to the extra skills they got for being a stunty team in the rules. That might change, it might not.

[mattwhile]

I think I said no "normal" sized Stars for the ARBBL, because I wanted to err on the side of caution due to the extra skills they got for being a stunty team in the rules. That might change, it might not.

At Cakebowl Stunty teams can take an extra Star Player, so that could be abused if 'normal' sized Stars were allowed. I think taking any should invalidate the Stunty-ness. By all means take Fezglitch etc on an Underworld team, but why should they be counted as Stunty as well?

[Pitch Invader]

Just me personally, I'd think it would be best to keep stunty teams as only stunty & 'Big Guys'. So no skaven stars in underworld, no sibili in a skink team and no zara in halfling, if they want to count as 'stunty'.

I wish I saw more tournaments that accepted stunty skink teams as 'best stunty' award eligible. Not as common in my area.

Or sometimes I see skinks or underworld without skaven allowed but not letting either of those teams take *any* stars. I don't understand that. if the star is a stunty, then why not? I think both skink & underworld are at a disadvantage compared to halflings, who could have 3 trees or goblins with 2 big guys plus doubles of all the secret weapons? Poor skinks and underworld goblins only have 1 big guy and no rostered secret weapons.

[Loki]

I think a goblin "only" Underworld team would definitely be the worst Stuntys: they get one Big Guy unless they can afford Morg, they can only have 12 standard Goblins, if they take the Goblin stars they are allowed they get sent off, their bribes cost 100k not 50k. Their only 'balance' is that they get mutations.

Personally I don't think the Lizards suffer if they are Skinks and a Krox as they can have Hemlock, I wouldn't really cry for them not having Silibili as a choice.

[nonumber]

I personally think stunty teams should be able to select whatever they want. It's not like they are going to be fielding a team of stars, most the players will still be stunties.

Ask yourself the question "will taking X turn this stunty team into a tournament winning team?"

If "no" then in that case who cares, let them have their fun and choose whatever team they want.

If "yes" then great! An all skink team winning the whole thing would be hilarious.

[Loki]

As Mr Gegg demonstrated an able (very able!) coach can defy the odds an string some wins together with a well chosen Stunty Team and as mentioned elsewhere there have been some good results for Stuntys over the course of a tournamnet but I don't think they are ever going to be first out the gate for the dedicated power gamer

[Darkson]

I don't think anyone is saying it's going to turn them into tournament winning teams, it's about their performance within the confines of the Stunty Cup.

[mattwhile]

I personally think stunty teams should be able to select whatever they want. It's not like they are going to be fielding a team of stars, most the players will still be stunties.

Yes, but Underworld aren't a Stunty team.

[mattwhile]

I think a goblin "only" Underworld team would definitely be the worst Stuntys

Agree, but they're not designed as a Stunty team. Choosing not to play any Ghouls on an Undead team would make them worse (performance-wise). If you're taking Underworld with no Skaven to fit into the Stunty 'ethos' then why should they be on a level playing field with the normal Stunty teams? I've seen people play Ogre teams with no Ogres. Those players don't require a level playing field, why should the non-Skaven Underworld ones?

[Loki]

I don't think anyone is saying it's going to turn them into tournament winning teams, it's about their performance within the confines of the Stunty Cup.

Yep and that is definitely what the discussion grew out of. A cup within a cup (generally) and the original question was focused on Stunty Underworld and Lizards a further niche beneath the Stunty banner. I'm fairly certain nonumber was being rhetorical.

I'm sure most Stunty coaches dream that Nuffle will smile on them and that it will all go to plan and every role of the oter team will be a 1 and they will be standing on the actual winners podium, maybe that's just me It's not going to happen so we have to content ourselves with Stunty cup and denigrate our brothers in arms when they pull Zara out the bag with Flings.

[Loki]

I think a goblin "only" Underworld team would definitely be the worst Stuntys

Agree, but they're not designed as a Stunty team. Choosing not to play any Ghouls on an Undead team would make them worse (performance-wise). If you're taking Underworld with no Skaven to fit into the Stunty 'ethos' then why should they be on a level playing field with the normal Stunty teams? I've seen people play Ogre teams with no Ogres. Those players don't require a level playing field, why should the non-Skaven Underworld ones?

I think that this gets to the heart of the matter. For the standard team people feel the need to narrow the tier gap in a number of ways which has a number of reasons. This disscussion isn't really much different to those dicussions. People choose to play all snotling teams, all zombie teams, Khemri with a masterchef or avoid teams under certain formats like where you get a bunch of skillls at the start you see more Lizards and thats their choice.

I don't think there should be a 'ruling' as such saying 'Stunty Underworld' must only take goblins Stars or not. I think it's up to TO's to say this is the rule we will be using and people are free to make their choices.

I was basically curious to see what peoples thoughts were

[nonumber]

I personally think stunty teams should be able to select whatever they want. It's not like they are going to be fielding a team of stars, most the players will still be stunties.

Yes, but Underworld aren't a Stunty team.

They are if the TO says they are. If they aren't then the question is irrelevant.

The stunty cup is there to be won and I think it's a shame to try and limit people's attempts to win it. I don't see all skink lizards or all goblin underworld taking a couple of stars and becoming massively overpowered in comparison to a regular goblin team with a star and bristling with secret weapons.

[Glowworm]

As Mr Gegg demonstrated an able (very able!) coach can defy the odds an string some wins together with a well chosen Stunty Team and as mentioned elsewhere there have been some good results for Stuntys over the course of a tournamnet but I don't think they are ever going to be first out the gate for the dedicated power gamer

I'm a powergamer!! But my results are not

The majority of stunty coaches play them because they love the challenge ( I play them to mask my poor playing style) and most would, I believe choose stars that kept that ethos alive.

Rather strangely I've never thought that Zara would invalidate a 'Fling team, however I would disallow slibli ( or whatever his name is) on a Skink team. Glart on underworld? Nope, however, fezglitch....as he's a fanatic, yes,but still a skaven I here you cry!!

It's not as clear cut as first thought, my opinion, contact your TO before hiring stars for your stunty cup team.