Khorne Announcement from the NAF

[Dr. Von Richten]

I still don't understand what people have against exploding squigs!

[plasmoid]

Good lord Podfrey,
I completely agree with you
Even to the point where when I said more playtesting was required, I was just playing nice. I think it is fairly obvious that the team is not so broken that it would ruin any leagues, so we could let it in and proceed playtest from there.

And since Spubbbba brought up the names issue, I'd repost what I posted on FUMBBL a few hours ago - with a few adjustments for valid points raised there:
Could it be fixed with something as simple as name-fixes?
0-16 Linemen 60,000 6338 Frenzy GP
0-4 Furies 80,000 6337 Horns, Regenerate Juggernaut GAS
0-2 Beastmen of Khorne 90,000 6338 Horns, Frenzy, Juggernaut GS
0-1 Daemon Prince of Khorne 180,000 6 5 1 9 Horns, Frenzy, Claw, Juggernaut, Regenerate, Loner, Wild Animal S

(_If_ the roster proves to be a tad weak, then perhaps ST6 on the bloodthirster would make it more bloodthirsterlike - while at the same time strengthening the team's secondary theme 'big bad big guy')

Cheers all,
Martin

[Shteve0]

I'm not sure what we'd gain by swapping "Bloodletter" for "Furies", or even what "Beastman of Khorne" adds that "Khornegor" doesn't.

0-16 Lineman
0-4 Bloodletter
0-2 Khornegor
0-1 Bloodthirster

would be markedly better, IMHO. If the team _does_ prove to be a tad weak, I'd suspect that's a design intention and can be left exactly as is

[MattDakka]

Good lord Podfrey,
I completely agree with you
Even to the point where when I said more playtesting was required, I was just playing nice. I think it is fairly obvious that the team is not so broken that it would ruin any leagues, so we could let it in and proceed playtest from there.

And since Spubbbba brought up the names issue, I'd repost what I posted on FUMBBL a few hours ago - with a few adjustments for valid points raised there:
Could it be fixed with something as simple as name-fixes?
0-16 Linemen 60,000 6338 Frenzy GP
0-4 Furies 80,000 6337 Horns, Regenerate Juggernaut GAS
0-2 Beastmen of Khorne 90,000 6338 Horns, Frenzy, Juggernaut GS
0-1 Daemon Prince of Khorne 180,000 6 5 1 9 Horns, Frenzy, Claw, Juggernaut, Regenerate, Loner, Wild Animal S

(_If_ the roster proves to be a tad weak, then perhaps ST6 on the bloodthirster would make it more bloodthirsterlike - while at the same time strengthening the team's secondary theme 'big bad big guy')

Cheers all,
Martin

• Furies don't fit the Khorne theme in my opinion. They are generic-chaotic, weak winged daemons present in daemon armies, but not directly related to Khorne (i.e. not a "trademark" Khorne's daemon), on top of that they are coward and Khorne hates cowards;
• I would call the Beastmen of Khorne Khorngors (http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorngor).
The roster looks better with more fitting names, but no M access for the Beastmen/Khorngors still sounds wrong to me, because this should be THE KILLER team by definition.
If it can't be a killer team, then don't use the word "Khorne" in the roster.

[bouncergriim]

totally misread furies as "furries" and was quite disgusted and confused.

[Darkson]

I still don't understand what people have against exploding squigs!

I wouldn't want anything against an exploding squig....

The roster looks better with more fitting names, but no M access for the Beastmen/Khorngors still sounds wrong to me, because this should be THE KILLER team by definition.
If it can't be a killer team, then don't use the word "Khorne" in the roster.

+1

[Shteve0]

Aside from Claw, I can't think of any 'killer' mutations (horns is arguable, but you have 7 of those anyway). S access has plenty, and you can roster 7 S access players as it is. Genuinely can't see the issue there. If you were arguing for S access linemen instead of P access, perhaps, but you just encourage the same boring build types from there.

FWIW, I think the Pact comparison's valid, but I'd prefer Pact lost their S-access on the linemen anyway - I feel like it detracts from the M access.

[Darkson]

Hmm - all lineman positions (and yes, than means dwarfs) lose S access.

[Shteve0]

Hmm - all lineman positions (and yes, than means dwarfs) lose S access.

Yep, I'd be happy enough with that, though I suspect the hardest sell would be to Chaos players (not that that's a bad thing).

[The Dazzler]

Is the issue that people are getting hung up on the Khorne tag?

We have Chaos, Nurgle and CP already.

It would be nice to see something, i suppose, that was very different, in the same way that Slann seems to play differently to any other team [i've not used them but have played against them]

I'd be quite happy to see an official Daemon team, themed or otherwise if only for the modelling opportunity

[plasmoid]

Hi all - especially Shteve0 and MattDakka.

Before we start - for the record I did not intend for this discussion to degenerate into the pointless excersize of coming up with stats that better fit the fluff.

Anyway:
@Shteve0: The point of furies rather than bloodletters is that a lot of coaches found a 6337 statline to be entirely too puny for a bloodletter. It would fit a lesser creature like the fury a lot better.

@Shteve0 & MattDakka: I wrote 'Beastman of Khorne' because currently there is no such thing as a Khornegor available from GW. That said, I'd be perfectly happy to call them Khornegor.

@MattDakka: I'm not a big follower of WFB/40K, but is there any in-game restrictions on furies preventing them from joining a Khorne-based army? I'm guessing not, and I find no need to come up with any restrictions of my own.

Linemen, Furies, Khorngor, Daemon Prince?
Cheers
Martin

[spubbbba]

@MattDakka: I'm not a big follower of WFB/40K, but is there any in-game restrictions on furies preventing them from joining a Khorne-based army? I'm guessing not, and I find no need to come up with any restrictions of my own.

Linemen, Furies, Khorngor, Daemon Prince?
Cheers
Martin

Gw have pretty much done away with all the old restrictions and Khorne's dislike of Slaanesh and wizards is represented by tokenism. So you could certainly have that, but it wouldn't really be a Daemons of Khorne team with no specifically Khorne daemons in it.
I think you have to put Bloodletters in the team somewhere.

Furies are some of the weakest daemons so juggernaut and strength access are as bad as AV7 and agility access on a letter. Plus Furies have rather puny horns.

Why not drop beastmen and make the heralds into letters? After all them not having regen makes as much sense as Heralds in the existing team not having it.

Maybe make the bloodletters into berserker beastmen? They wear no armour but are drugged up to the eyeballs so can come back from horrific injuries and have fast reactions.

[Shteve0]

Hi all - especially plasmoid and mattdakka.

Before we start - for the record, no-one is discussing statlines.

@plasmoid - several coaches have no idea what a fury is, and feel that a 6337 statline doesn't fit, so I've decided that this position should be called "banana-biscuit".

@mattdakka - I don't keep up on 40k fluff, but as far as I'm aware there's no specific ruling that means that banana-biscuits are specific to a chaos god. I therefore think it appropriate that I loftily dismiss your concerns as irrelevant. Please correct me if you have specifically worded evidence to the contrary.

Cheers
Steve

[MattDakka]

Hi Martin!

@Shteve0 & MattDakka: I wrote 'Beastman of Khorne' because currently there is no such thing as a Khornegor available from GW. That said, I'd be perfectly happy to call them Khornegor.

Fair enough, I guess that GW removed them from the last Beasts of Chaos Army Book (I have the former, with the Khorngors); two names for the same beastman, Khorngor sounds more elegant to me and it's shorter ;

@MattDakka: I'm not a big follower of WFB/40K, but is there any in-game restrictions on furies preventing them from joining a Khorne-based army? I'm guessing not, and I find no need to come up with any restrictions of my own.

Linemen, Furies, Khorngor, Daemon Prince?

@mattdakka - I don't keep up on 40k fluff, but as far as I'm aware there's no specific ruling that means that banana-biscuits are specific to a chaos god. I therefore think it appropriate that I loftily dismiss your concerns as irrelevant. Please correct me if you have specifically worded evidence to the contrary.

Currently there isn't any afaik, but it's no surprising since GW raped its own fluff in order to sell more models (one of the reasons which made me quit playing WHFB);
a Khorne Daemon team in my opinion should be representative of a Khorne-dedicated followers/daemons of Khorne, not a motley crew of Chaos daemons (if the roster were called "Chaos Daemon team" it would be a different matter). A Khorne Daemon team is different from a WHFB daemon army: in an army you may represent a large daemonic invasion force, in a Khorne team you are (supposedly) trying to portray the essence of Khorne-related daemons/followers so you should put just the true Khorne daemons/followers.

Anyway, maybe I wasn't clear and apologies if I was so: I do appreciate your effort of making the roster more logical to accept by changing names, I just pointed out what it didn't sound right to me.
The real issue is that the roster simply doesn't fit Khorne very well and trying to make it Khornate is like hammering a square peg into a round hole.

[Axtklinge]

[(...)I think you have to put Bloodletters in the team somewhere.(...)

Spubbbba is right.
Not saying I like those names, but I believe I've read those specific positional player titles were imposed by GW.

Maybe make the bloodletters into berserker beastmen? They wear no armour but are drugged up to the eyeballs so can come back from horrific injuries and have fast reactions.

Thumbs up to that!
I would even use those same words to the fluff of the team!