Cyanide releases their Khorne Roster

[Nephron]

Hi guys,

I wanted to give you a short update on my last 2 matches.

My third match was against Norse, but despite their lack of good armour I was totally destroyed. I couldnt get the upper hand and lost 2:0


Today I played against Chaosdwarves. The game quickly developed into a bashparty, but despite all the blocks, not one player got a CAS or K.O.
He received, but I managed to get the ball from him and score in turn 8.
The second half took another route. I blitzed an opening an positioned 2 players in TD range. But my pass in the next round failed, despite a RR. But my opponent took a CAS and a few K.Os which allowed me to score.
So the match ended 2:0 for me.

I also have a few new question, regarding development. Atm I have 120k in the bank. Since my last few matches I realized, that I have problems against teams with more than 1 STR 3 guy. That got me thinking, that I perhaps should get the BT, although I originally didnt plan on buying him.
What are your thougts on this? Should I get him, or perhaps wait until I get 1-2 PFs with Dauntless, that have a better chance against the strong players?

I am also thinking about the development for my Khorne Heralds. What do you think about developing one as a killer? I was thinking along the lines of Block, Mighty Blow, Piling On + Tackle. In combination with his standard skills, it should be a pretty lethal player.
Do you think that could be a good idea? Or should I go a more devensive route with both KHs?

That would be all for now

Nephron

[Smeborg]

Hi Nephron. I think both your questions are good, and the answer to both is: it depends!

One way to look at the Bloodthirster is to say that he costs 3 Pit Fighters. He is better than the other Wild Animals in the game, but he is still a Wild Animal. I think it depends on the rosters you face, whether he makes sense against them, and whether you can afford the lack of reserves (or RRs) that he implies (at a given TV).

The Heralds can no doubt be developed into decent killers, but my question would be: how often do you use them to crowdsurf an opponent? Every time you use them for crowdsurfing, their killer skills are wasted. (The same could be said of the Bloodthirster).

This is a new roster - it's up to you to pick a strategy and see how it goes. Let us know how you get on.

[Nephron]

Hi Smeborg,

thanks for the input.
I think I will wait with my decision until after my next game. If I win, I should have enough money for the BT. So I will give it some more thought then.

My next opponent is a pretty beat up Woodelf team. I havent played against an Agi-team so far with my Khorne, so I am curious to find out, how well I can protect myself, against their fast players. Hopefully I will be able to get the advantage of numbers quickly, otherwise it could become problematic.

Regarding the Herald, I try to surf most of the times a chance presents itself, but so far my opponents were very carefull to place their players far away enough from the sidelines to prevent an attempt at surfing them. I got in a few surfs here and there, but not as much as I would like.

But I think your question has a point. In theory, a Bloodletter could developed into a Killer instead, although he lacks Frenzy. I think the main problem with that route would be his AV 7 which makes him a pretty big target for fouling, once he is on the ground, although regeneration could save him in case of an injury.

You have given me a lot of ideas and things to think about again. Thanks for that

Btw how does your team develop? Did you have the chance to play another match with them yet?

[Smeborg]

Hi Smeborg,..

...Btw how does your team develop? Did you have the chance to play another match with them yet?

Hi again, Nephron. I play in a slow-moving open tabletop league, and it may be a while before my Khorne team plays another game, as it has outstripped the other teams. They have had 5 games, DWWLW. TDs: 8-3. CAS: 12-5 (not a fair reflection, got a freak 7-0 result against Lizzies). They have just reached my intended final roster, which is 13 players, no Bloodthirster, 3RR + Leader, 1AC/1CL. This gives a TV of 145 after just 5 games (21 points of skills, 4FF). With the Bloodthirster, that TV would be quite a bit higher, obviously.

Having played a little bit with this team, all the players seem to be in skill deficit (apart from when blitzing, of course). They hunger for Block, Guard, Dodge, Dauntless, Tackle etc., not to mention some ball movement skills. I'm not sure how much room is left for the killer skills TBH. Maybe that's just my taste, but I will probably let others blaze the trail with the killy version of the team - I prefer the lean one.

All the best.

[Nephron]

Hi,

althoug I havent played my next match yet, I made a decision regarding the BT. I will not buy him, but got my 4th Bloodletter instead.
I really dont like the TV boost the BT would give my team and I think I can manage without him. As a consequence, I think I will develop a Herald as a Killer. I could use your input there, regarding development.
At the moment I plan on developing him the following way:

Block, Mighty Blow, Piling On.

I am unsure on how to proceed from there on. Also there is the question of what I should take on a double(if I should get one).
What are your thoughts on that?


Bye,
Nephron

[Hitonagashi]

Standard killer path says to take Tackle next, then one of Juggernaut and Grab.

[Nephron]

I totally forgot Tackle

They already have Juggernaut and Grab isnt an option due to Frenzy afaik.

[Shteve0]

He already has Horns, Juggs and Frenzy, so Juggs/Grab not options. If you're hunting (blitzing) with this guy I'd suggest block is lower priority (because Juggs does part of the job for you) - tackle, MB, PO are your major kill skills, followed by block at 3 or 4 depending on your environment. Maybe DT or JU on doubles.

[Nephron]

JU is Jump up correct? What is DT?

Ignoring Block as first Skill is an idea worth considering. In which order would you get his skills then? As you posted Tackle, MB, PO? Or in another order? I have never built a killer before.

[Shteve0]

Frenzy is approximately equal to tackle, though at higher TVs you'll want both. My suggestion would be MB first to get progress, then depending on your personal experience Tackle, Block or PO. Really it comes down to what you wish you had more often when you're playing - my guess would be Tackle (since it's two sided), then PO, then Block if you need it - but it comes down to personal preference. Block decreases in offensive value over time but increases in defensive value (watch out for counterattacks).

DT is Diving Tackle. SS (sidestep) very worth considering too, for countersurf possibilities. I'm not sure I'd bother with Dodge, since by the time I'd want it the players I'd be worried about him facing will have tackle anyway.

[Hitonagashi]

Ah, sorry..I thought we were talking Bloodletter as a killer. My bad!

Personally, I'd go MB/PO/Block/Tackle/JU.

With killers, you need block. This way, when Juggernaut cancels Wrestle (or if they haven't got Wrestle or Block at all), you can opt not to use it and smash them. In addition, it keeps them a lot safer when you push and end up next to them.

Jump Up I'm always leery about. I like it for giving your blitzers more mobility (always good), but I don't like actually using it to block with. A 1/6 chance of your very expensive player lying down for another turn is not good. Like Break Tackle, it can have it's uses though.

[swilhelm73]

Ah, sorry..I thought we were talking Bloodletter as a killer. My bad!

Personally, I'd go MB/PO/Block/Tackle/JU.

With killers, you need block. This way, when Juggernaut cancels Wrestle (or if they haven't got Wrestle or Block at all), you can opt not to use it and smash them. In addition, it keeps them a lot safer when you push and end up next to them.

Jump Up I'm always leery about. I like it for giving your blitzers more mobility (always good), but I don't like actually using it to block with. A 1/6 chance of your very expensive player lying down for another turn is not good. Like Break Tackle, it can have it's uses though.

I suppose it depends on your team build. If you only have one player you want to blitz with and you want to choose targets then it will be wasted.

OTOH, I think for most builds it is worth it.

So, for example on my Necro team I had a JuClPoMB wolf and one without JU/PO. I'd set up the JU wolf whenever I could to get repeat blocks and use the other wolf to blitz with. It was a good combo IMO

[Smeborg]

If I were to build a Herald in the killer style, I would start with Nephron's suggested skills:

Block, M-Blow, P-On, Tackle

and round out the player with Fend or S-Firm as 5th skill (depending on environment). Dodge on doubles. Dauntless is another skill worth considering. The skill that you might sorely miss in the killer build is Guard. Late Tackle on the team may also be a problem, thus there is a case for Tackle before P-On.

I suggest that Khorne is not a team which lends itself to blitzing with the same player each turn for CAS. That's simply not how they play. There are 6 players (7 if you have a Bloodthirster) who like to blitz, plus even the Pit Fighters are the right players to blitz sometimes, and the positional situation will strongly influence who takes the blitz. For example, the opportunity arises to surf a player, or the ball carrier needs to take the blitz, or you must bring down the opponent's ball carrier, or you need to take a blitz without having to make a Frenzied follow-up etc.. These varied situations occur all the time. The preferred killer Blitzer will also start his turn in contact as often as not (because of Frenzy), thus you are unlikely to waste the blitz on him.

I think all Khorne players need to be able to look after themselves in the blocking wars, and recommend that all of them (excepting only a couple of specialists) should start with Block. The specialists would be a Leader and a "Thrower". Were I to go the killy route with this team, I would incline to develop 3 players in killer fashion (Bloodthirster and 2 Heralds), rather than a lone specialist. That makes it much more likely that a killer can take the blitz most turns.

Hope that helps.

[Nephron]

Of course the use of a killer would be depending on the situation. But I think he could be useful, even if you dont get the chance to blitz with him. In that case you would lose Juggernaut and Horns, but he would still be dangerous and if you have Block on him, the risk would be managable.

I didn't think about going the Killer route on both Heralds, but it would make sense. Sure, Guard on both would be nice too, but sind they have Frenzy, they could end up out of position often enough so that Guard wouldn't have any effect anyways. This might be something worth considering.
In that case, Guard would be a must on all Bloodletters, since they are the only players without Frenzy. My first idea for the Bloodletters was to go Block, Dodge, Guard to have a safety for their AV 7 but now I am thinking that 2 of them should go Block, Guard and then Dodge.
It makes them a bigger target, but also gives the team earlier access to Guard.

[DixonCider]

now that there has been a lot of play testing with the Khorne roster what changes would you make to them? Would you like them added to the regulation teams?