Ironmanj Shield IV: Random Bedlam- ##CANCELLED##

[Ironjaw]

So, the venue called me today to say they were having construction work done over this weekend and the following one.

They offered me the weekend before and the weekend before Waterbowl. As there is no interest in the event as it is, changing the date and persisting seemed a waste of time and effort, so it's easier to cancel.

I will refund Gav and give the money in person to the others this weekend at Flame Bowl.

The economy/tournament saturation/advent of new FUMBBL client has unfortunately cumulated in an adverse effect on the tournament scene.

There are 3 other tournaments within 4 weeks in the new year so I'm sure the 6 people that fancied this can find another fix.

Blood Bowl is shit.

Leon.

[Purplegoo]

Boo. BOO.

Bad times.

(Although I doubt the FUMBBL client has anything to do with the price of fish...)

[Ironjaw]

(Although I doubt the FUMBBL client has anything to do with the price of fish...)

It does, but not arguing about it here.

[Pipey]

Bad times indeed. Don't blame you for canceling at all. Real shame.

Blood bowl isn't shit, I have to disagree with that!

I'd be interested why other people think this might've happened. It's been discussed a little around Geordiebowl (and its surprisingly low turnout).

Other tourneys in the north are still well attended. Could it be a saturation of events? The very well established ones still attract plenty of coaches, but good tourneys that used to attract 20-25 aren't pulling in the punters.

Can talk about this at Flame Bowl too.

[Joemanji]

Maybe it's too close to Waterbowl (my fault as I originally chose the date)? Someone on the Waterbowl forum said they were saving themselves for that. Whilst three weeks seems like a long gap for an addict like me, I guess for the causal attendee it might not be.

Welsh Open the weekend after also knocked out all hope of southerners going, although another bizarre thing about Ironmanj is that it has never picked up any randoms ... everyone who attended the previous events was GBBL, ECBBL, Waterbowl or local IIRC.

[mattwhile]

For me it was always competing with Poobowl, especially now that (due to fatherhood) I'm only allowed to attend a certain amount of tournies each month/year.

[Podfrey]

Given the date (1st pay packet after Xmas and with PooBowl and Waterbowl either side), rules set (one of the most complex there is) and location (75+ miles from any regular tournament attending league) it's not that surprising to me that it only ever attracted the hard core tournament players. And calling everyone Bell Ends, etc may be funny within cliques, but it doesn't translate well to "randoms".

No slight is implied by any of the above, nor am I criticising the organisers, and I've found that its always been well run. It's just some observations (not criticism). If anyone doesn't agree, that's fine, I'm just trying to offer what I can see and not what I think.

[Joemanji]

... location (75+ miles from any regular tournament attending league) it's not that surprising to me that it only ever attracted the hard core tournament players. ...

This is a fair point. When we set IM up initially we were hoping to involve some of the the YBBL coaches in the tournament scene. At the time they were playing Charlie Big Potatoes, claiming to be the biggest league in the world with over 100 coaches and so on. Unfortunately that never translated to attendees and the YBBL has since crumbled.

[Pipey]

I think your point [Podfrey's]about Leon's "I hate you all" humour being lost on new players might not be a bad one. Maybe the package of very complex rules, lottery, plus TR120-anything-goes are too gimmicky for people. I don't know.

But the numbers do seem to be have gone down from previous years. Same applies to GB (which does have an active league). And neither event has significantly changed.

Couple more possible factors:
-because there are so many events now, north and south, very few coaches travel long distances to play. Midlands tourneys (e.g. NAFC, Poo, WISB) seem to do well but northerners aren't attending the likes of Thrud, Pearlies, Spiky; and the southerners don't attend the northern events - the exceptions being maybe MB, WB, FB (established traditionally very well attended tourneys) where a hard core is still loyal.
-seems the core of Waterbowl leaguers aren't travelling to GB, Ironmanj anymore. Is the league now less active? Think this is Leon's point about fumbbl - is Waterbowl now played via fumbbl rather than regular face-to-face?


Are there just too many tournaments? Is this why some events are suffering?

[Valen]

This sucks

Leon I will be at Flame Bowl on Staurday just for a catch up with some guys so you can pay me there if you like?

[Jimjimjimany]

I think the WB is less active in attending northern tournaments these days. Last year we had 4 of the players who travelled most around the north moved away from manchester and I guess that makes creating a buzz about an event a little more difficult, petrol money pricier etc.

Personally, I've enjoyed previous ironmanjs greatly but the reason I wasn't going to attend this one was because of the lottery. One of the unique things about the IM was its much heralded rules pack which made everyone's favourite tier 2/3 team suddenly competitive but not bonkers, however I wasn't keen on showing up and being presented with a team I'd played before and knew I wouldn't enjoy 6 games with. I enjoyed it the first couple of times I did it but wasn't keen on doing it again.

[Joemanji]

-because there are so many events now, north and south, very few coaches travel long distances to play. Midlands tourneys (e.g. NAFC, Poo, WISB) seem to do well but northerners aren't attending the likes of Thrud, Pearlies, Spiky; and the southerners don't attend the northern events - the exceptions being maybe MB, WB, FB (established traditionally very well attended tourneys) where a hard core is still loyal.

...

Are there just too many tournaments? Is this why some events are suffering?

I'm trying to be positive and look at it another way. There are more events and more NAF games played per year each year. So the scene as a whole is stronger in that respect. We always knew that as the number of events grew, natural selection would mean some struggled. It is just a shame for us that the events that are in reality down on numbers are not the ones we thought.

I guess we have to accept that what we value in a tournament (good organisation, good night out, good coaches, sociable people, good rules) is not what others value.

[Loki]

I guess we have to accept that what we value in a tournament (good organisation, good night out, good coaches, sociable people, good rules) is not what others value.

I'm not sure I woudl fully agree with that, I don't know one coach who would just go to a tournamnet that was local if the values you mentioned are not acceptable, BUT, if there are two tournamnets and you have a 'subjective assessmnet' of the values you highlight in the mix with the 'hard facts' of £50 for travel and £30 for accomodation on top of ticket price, the local tournement is going to have a certain edge.

[sann0638]

I guess we have to accept that what we value in a tournament (good organisation, good night out, good coaches, sociable people, good rules) is not what others value.

What does this leave?

[lunchmoney]

stuff about tournament saturation etc...

more stuff...

more stuff...

Gents, I started a thread on the subject viewtopic.php?f=34&t=37421