Developing dark elves in a bash heavy league

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:46 am

Block before dodge for works because of tackle. At high value (which I suggest de race too faster than any other race due to the roster cost) we expect tackle

Playing at 1750 if I got lucky and have 2 players with guard and dodge as thier second skill I will expect the following.

A my guards are hit first by my opponent in his turn. Typically anything with tackle has block, and this taking a 2d my guard is effectively unskilled with your build.

B at the end of my opponents turn my 2 guard players are probably tied up. If they were in a scrum they are unlikely to be left in no Tz. Thus the dodge guard needs to risk a
2+ probably still next to a tackler to be redeployed in my turn. This in my block build is less of an issue as the block guard can fight forward and deploy guard AFTER blocking. I find the dodge variety can only skip away and use guard if space is avaible and it is a simple needed assist

C I am equal men on the pitch I like dodge. If I am thining out I want block first on my guards to fight back. Fighting back is actually the secret to this build

D my guard is preciouse. I tend to never buy the runner in the above as I want maximum opportunity to get 3 or 4 guards at 2k. This is my strategy but I will support that by letting a non guard typical player die and always try to save my guards. The extended logic is by using block they skill faster as Indivuals as they take blocks. Dodge is better to score but my ma6 guys struggle compared to the ma7 to skill. This above all else is worth thinking about

Hehe. Long thoughts but consider the long term goal and your steps towards it. I see many teams on cyanide and fumbbl that at high ratings don't have as much overall planing as my idea suggests. When the team of Indivuals plays the overall squad I would suggest the best squad should always find thier strategy easier to win with

fidius · Post by **fidius** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:48 pm

My two bits are based on a recent bad experience with DE: If you are at all concerned that you aren't "ready" to play them (the "not for novices" comment is a good one), take 3 rerolls if you can. Especially in a bash league, with one run of bad luck you can quite easily use your RRs quickly, fail a necessary early dodge, find yourself in nasty tacklezones, get surrounded, and get pounded the rest of the game. In my case I lost several expensive players and the team never recovered. If you're good enough to play cautiously and preserve RRs wisely, great. If not, you're playing with fire.

Hegel · Post by **Hegel** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:40 am

I just started a rookie dark elves team in a small and balanced (bash vs agility and other teams) league, before two dwarf and an undead team joined and a woodie team resigned. Now it´s a really bashy environment with 2 dwarf teams, chaos dwarf, orc, vampires, chaos pact. The other teams are skaven, underworld, high elf, pro elf and a second dark elf team.

My big question now is, should I stick to my darkies ? They played two matches and three out of four blitzers already skilled (guard, dodge and +AG), and one line elf got kick. They also have the apo and 70k cash. And, as they are a real tabletop team, the whole team is already painted

.

On the other hand, it´s just two matches, and I could easily start with a more resilient team - I´d favor necros here because I already have an old undead team which only needs wolves and golems.

Any comment and or advice would be welcome ! Sorry to use this topic for my questions, but it really fits my thoughts...

barnacle111 · Post by **barnacle111** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:48 am

@Hegel: Stick with de's! You started with them, and they'll get hurt feelings if you dump them now. And they're painted! Besides where's the challenge in just dropping them because they don't fit the league?

dines · Post by **dines** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:29 am

Hegel wrote:I just started a rookie dark elves team in a small and balanced (bash vs agility and other teams) league, before two dwarf and an undead team joined and a woodie team resigned. Now it´s a really bashy environment with 2 dwarf teams, chaos dwarf, orc, vampires, chaos pact. The other teams are skaven, underworld, high elf, pro elf and a second dark elf team.

My big question now is, should I stick to my darkies ? They played two matches and three out of four blitzers already skilled (guard, dodge and +AG), and one line elf got kick. They also have the apo and 70k cash. And, as they are a real tabletop team, the whole team is already painted .

On the other hand, it´s just two matches, and I could easily start with a more resilient team - I´d favor necros here because I already have an old undead team which only needs wolves and golems.

Any comment and or advice would be welcome ! Sorry to use this topic for my questions, but it really fits my thoughts...

Yeah keep on going and you've got some nice rolls, guard and AG is golden on your blitzers. You might focus less on getting dodge on your players with 2 dwarf and 1 chaos dwarf team in the league. The witch is also more optional in that setting.

Hegel · Post by **Hegel** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:01 am

Kept going, had a match yesterday versus Chaos Dwarves. Although I managed to finish this match with a draw, I used a lot of f* and s* words after the match. One line elf received a casualty and got -AV. Apo was already used. Could have been worse I thought, this guy unly had one SPP from a completion and I earned 60k gold in that match. But gues who has got the MVP award... and got +ST ... a line elf with ST4 would be fantastic, but with AV7 he´d have the target painted on his back for all opponents, not to mention the cost for this player. I guess I gonna sack him, although it hurts.

dines · Post by **dines** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:18 am

Hegel wrote:Kept going, had a match yesterday versus Chaos Dwarves. Although I managed to finish this match with a draw, I used a lot of f* and s* words after the match. One line elf received a casualty and got -AV. Apo was already used. Could have been worse I thought, this guy unly had one SPP from a completion and I earned 60k gold in that match. But gues who has got the MVP award... and got +ST ... a line elf with ST4 would be fantastic, but with AV7 he´d have the target painted on his back for all opponents, not to mention the cost for this player. I guess I gonna sack him, although it hurts.

Well it would have been a lot worse if it was one of your positionals and yeah gotta fire him. Strength without block or dodge isn't that big a deal anyway.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:42 am

I disagree. You gotta protect your +ST guys anyway. It's true that +ST on its own is no biggie, but it's easy to skill this player and once he's got Block he's a difference-maker.

barnacle111 · Post by **barnacle111** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:40 pm

A high ST dark elf is very handy considering the lack of other high ST players... I would consider keeping him, even just protecting him until the next skill before adding in block. An AV 7 block St 4 player is a very useful player!

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:17 pm

yeah man keep th av7 st4 guy. They are surgical and need to be used with caution - bit like a tool in a dirty hospital.

DE are powerfull and using your threats is a good way to play. Avoid contact as much as possible but dont be scared of going for it when the time is right. (judging when the time is right is the harder bit)

Hitonagashi · Post by **Hitonagashi** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:22 pm

I'd drop him.

He's got no block? That means that he's a marker. Without block, he's certainly not going to be doing your blitzing...so if you aren't using him for blitzing (no block), or ball carrying (no sure hands/block/dodge etc), then what *are* you going to be using him for?

If the answer is marking...then high value players with av 7 and no defensive skills == tres bad.

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:53 am

I take hito's point but I WOULD use him to blitz regardless of not having block. Typically he gain spps by using him as much as possible.

Elves benefit from surgical strikes and I dont see av7 as a major problem if you cover him afterwards. This is a rare case when its worth trying to keep a player. Maybe take the approach to try it, and if/when he takes injuries let him go then. See how you get on? If he makes 10 games fine. If he crumbles t2 next game just dont bother giving him the apoth

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:44 pm

ST4 marking ST3 away from the action? AV doesn't matter.

Hitonagashi · Post by **Hitonagashi** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:36 pm

mattgslater wrote:ST4 marking ST3 away from the action? AV doesn't matter.

So your 110k elf is going to be marking a 50k lino?

Juck, Dark Elf rerolls are valuable. He's got a 1/9 chance of turning over every blitz, and what do you get from using him to blitz? The warm fuzzy feeling that comes with using a +ST player instead of bringing in an assist?

I think I have maybe 1 blitz every 5-6 games where I'd like to use +ST because I can't spare a man for an assist (or get one easily). If you are blitzing with him every turn, he's going to turn over way more frequently than that due to no block.

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:58 am

A few more TDs is going to give him Block anyway. Elves can skill up quite quickly.

Apart from the odd cas, a TD is relatively easy and if need be a throw of the ball can creep the points past the skill boundry.

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