The real issue with the Khorne roster...

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:22 pm

I too would keep Pro elves over Helf and Welf. Agree too that Delf could do with 6437 60k linos and losing two blitzers. There are quite a few rosters I would look to tweak if I'm honest.

To non-thought through suggestions, how'd you like this for a pro dwarf lineup?
O-16 Dwarf 4329 Block, Stunty 60k GS/AP
0-2 Dwarf Blitzer 6329 Block, Stunty 70k GS/AP
0-2 Trollslayer 5319 Juggernaut, Frenzy, Stunty 100k GS/AP
0-2 Dwarf Runner 6328 Sure Hands, Break Tackle, Stunty 90k GP/AS

Killers.

SunDevil, funnily enough I'm planning to convert up a Necron/Khemri team in the very near future!

Dr. Von Richten · Post by **Dr. Von Richten** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:23 pm

... and if everybody gets to cut their most hated team from the game we will be left with nothing ...

I really don't see why there should not be a 25th, or 26th, or 212th, team, as long as they are :

a) reasonably balanced: as least no better than the best teams currently existing (& properly playtested as well)
b) properly fluffy: fitting in the 'pseudo-warhammer-fantasy' setting that is Blood Bowl
c) original: different enough from the existing teams to give a distinct play experience.

Mind you, I don't think there will be more than a few not-yet-existing teams that fullfill those criteria, but otherwise, what's there to lose?

Heff · Post by **Heff** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:31 pm

Shteve0 wrote:I too would keep Pro elves over Helf and Welf. Agree too that Delf could do with 6437 60k linos and losing two blitzers. There are quite a few rosters I would look to tweak if I'm honest.

To non-thought through suggestions, how'd you like this for a pro dwarf lineup?
O-16 Dwarf 4329 Block, Stunty 60k GS/AP
0-2 Dwarf Blitzer 6329 Block, Stunty 70k GS/AP
0-2 Trollslayer 5319 Juggernaut, Frenzy, Stunty 100k GS/AP
0-2 Dwarf Runner 6328 Sure Hands, Break Tackle, Stunty 90k GP/AS

Killers.

AG2 stunties without dodge. Now I bow to no man with my unreasoning hatred of the bearded ones but even I would not do this too them.

burgun824 · Post by **burgun824** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Seeing as I'm the one who helped de-rail this conversation I'd at least like to try and make up for it by reminding everyone that we're getting way off topic.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:40 pm

Colin wrote:It's kinda funny to hear people talking about axing the (pro) elves and the Necro teams. The (pro) elves were introduced as the Elf team to replace the High Elf team. Of course a bunch of people whinged and complained so the HE's were never removed. Necro and Khemri were made to replace the all in one Undead team, but again, people whinged and complained and it was kept. Personally I think the Necro should be just called Undead and ax the all in one Undead team roster (as was supposed to be the case). Get rid of the High Elves and Wood Elves and redesign the Elf roster (only need "good" Elves and Dark Elves IMO). Don't need a team roster to match each WH army out there (that's why we now have a Deamons of Khorne roster, IMO). GW thinks that the specialist games should be "gateway" games that get people into playing the "core" games of WHFB and 40K. That was evident in the 3ed minis that look like WH warriors that stepped off the battlefield to play a game of BB (ie. look similar to WH minis with no weapons). That was being reversed and things were going back to a 2ed feel (teams not mirroring the WH universe, having their own unique feel to them) when Jarvis was running Specialist Games, but then SG was scrapped as a seperate entity and no support given to the specialst games, so we're back with the old GW mindset when new rosters are added (ie Khorne).
So to make a long story short, I'm with the camp that wants less rosters (and some tweeked to work better) instead of more. I would also like to go back to the 2ed way of naming positionals and just have BB names, get rid of the WHFB army unit name infuence. I know there are people who think that the WH names give more "flavour", but that's not the flavour we need in BB. Fantasy football is a parady of gridiron football and should should only have a sports flavour.
I could go on, but post is a little long right now so I'll stop here.

No more need be added....

Word

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:33 am

Dr. Von Richten wrote:... and if everybody gets to cut their most hated team from the game we will be left with nothing ...

I really don't see why there should not be a 25th, or 26th, or 212th, team, as long as they are :

a) reasonably balanced: as least no better than the best teams currently existing (& properly playtested as well)
b) properly fluffy: fitting in the 'pseudo-warhammer-fantasy' setting that is Blood Bowl
c) original: different enough from the existing teams to give a distinct play experience.

Mind you, I don't think there will be more than a few not-yet-existing teams that fullfill those criteria, but otherwise, what's there to lose?

+1

Word

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:36 am

I'll +1 and word here, too. Though I do so in the belief that that still leaves room for new BB fluff... So New World teams are fine (Slann, for example).

Heff wrote:AG2 stunties without dodge. Now I bow to no man with my unreasoning hatred of the bearded ones but even I would not do this too them.

I agree. In retrospect, I'd say it's potentially too powerful. ST3 stunties with starting block and access to break tackle and guard on normals? No cage is safe.

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:55 am

Colin wrote:It's kinda funny to hear people talking about axing the (pro) elves and the Necro teams. The (pro) elves were introduced as the Elf team to replace the High Elf team. Of course a bunch of people whinged and complained so the HE's were never removed. Necro and Khemri were made to replace the all in one Undead team, but again, people whinged and complained and it was kept. Personally I think the Necro should be just called Undead and ax the all in one Undead team roster (as was supposed to be the case). Get rid of the High Elves and Wood Elves and redesign the Elf roster (only need "good" Elves and Dark Elves IMO). Don't need a team roster to match each WH army out there (that's why we now have a Deamons of Khorne roster, IMO). GW thinks that the specialist games should be "gateway" games that get people into playing the "core" games of WHFB and 40K. That was evident in the 3ed minis that look like WH warriors that stepped off the battlefield to play a game of BB (ie. look similar to WH minis with no weapons). That was being reversed and things were going back to a 2ed feel (teams not mirroring the WH universe, having their own unique feel to them) when Jarvis was running Specialist Games, but then SG was scrapped as a seperate entity and no support given to the specialst games, so we're back with the old GW mindset when new rosters are added (ie Khorne).
So to make a long story short, I'm with the camp that wants less rosters (and some tweeked to work better) instead of more. I would also like to go back to the 2ed way of naming positionals and just have BB names, get rid of the WHFB army unit name infuence. I know there are people who think that the WH names give more "flavour", but that's not the flavour we need in BB. Fantasy football is a parady of gridiron football and should should only have a sports flavour.
I could go on, but post is a little long right now so I'll stop here.

+1

Can't say it better.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:52 pm

Cheers Steve.

RogueThirteen · Post by **RogueThirteen** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:15 pm

Why want to axe something like High Elves? They're far from overpowered or underpowered (definitely well below Wood and Dark Elves and comparable to Pro Elves) but bring the passing game to Blood Bowl. I know all you grizzled, joyless, experienced Blood Bowl coaches hate passing

, but isn't having one team that's designed around a good thrower acceptable?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:39 pm

Don't assume anything, I pass with dwarves (no joke).

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:49 am

Darkson wrote:
Dr. Von Richten wrote:I really don't see why there should not be a 25th, or 26th, or 212th, team, as long as they are :

a) reasonably balanced: as least no better than the best teams currently existing (& properly playtested as well)
b) properly fluffy: fitting in the 'pseudo-warhammer-fantasy' setting that is Blood Bowl
c) original: different enough from the existing teams to give a distinct play experience.

Mind you, I don't think there will be more than a few not-yet-existing teams that fullfill those criteria, but otherwise, what's there to lose?
+1

Word

And my word is +2! (Is that two words?)

Dr. Von Richten · Post by **Dr. Von Richten** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:10 pm

Chris wrote: And my word is +2! (Is that two words?)

As the Count would say:

Vun! Vun Vord! Zuu! Zuu Vords! Ah Ah Ah!!!

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:31 pm

Khorne are great fun

Maybe not the best team, but they are ok from what I seen after 8 games.

Sandwich · Post by **Sandwich** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:25 am

If an elf team was to go, it should be the High Elves rather than "pros"... that would make the dark elves more unique (as it stands they're too similar to high elves) plus the elf catcher+blitzer are much better and more unique than the high versions. I also like the AV7 on elves as it makes more thematic sense.

I'd also see some sense in turning the current "chaos" team into a beastman team - same stats, just rename the CW - and create/adapt different teams for each of the chaos gods. And no, daemons should not really be playing the game.

As for new rosters, I don't see why new ones couldn't be added from time to time, but definitely agree they need to be properly balanced and tested - and we definitely need more tier 1.5/2 teams and less power-gamer teams.

Necrons... well there's definitely an undercurrent of steam-punk in existing bloodbowl, such as chainsaws and deathrollers, so I can certainly see a place for mechanical robot type players... maybe it could be a slow team based around the Stand Firm skill. And with some cool weaponry as positional players/stars (I loved the 2nd ed rules for weapons, such as the cannon, killdozer, and chaos seesaw!)

EDIT: and I definitely agree that dwarves should come with stunty (though maybe giving them Thick Skull as well)

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