Lizardmen vs. Chaos Dwarf strategy...

[Daikaiju]

I am a new BB coach in a brand new league. I am coaching a Lizardman team and for week one I have Chaos Dwarves.

I have been going through my playbook, searching, and studying the Chao Dwarves and, frankly, I am not sure how to beat them!

My opponent is starting 2 bulls, 6 dwarves, and the rest Hobs.

I have 6 Saraus, 5 Skink, and 3 re-roll.

As it is week one, we obviously have no development.

What should be my general strategy here? Any tips or pointers?

Thanks in advance!


Daikaiju

[spubbbba]

Well a key factor is to protect the skinks from the blockers, they will have a 75% chance of knocking them over on a normal block and AV7 combined with stunty means they die pretty easily.

Also even with re-rolls remember that blocking with the saurus is risky and has a 1 in 9 chance of failure so think carefully about what will happen if you fail, though sometimes it may be better to take the turnover and conserve re-rolls in the early stages of the game.

The Bulls are the real threat of the team, if you can take them out or tie them up then the blockers are very slow. Hobgoblins are pretty fragile too so hit them if you get the chance.

In desperate times Saurus are not as terrible dodgers as you think, with a re-roll your chances are 5 in 9 or 11 in 36 with tackle zones (even into a cage it is the same). So if managing that dodge is potentially game winning then it can be worth it. Just remember it is last resort.

[Daikaiju]

The Bulls are the real threat of the team, if you can take them out or tie them up then the blockers are very slow. Hobgoblins are pretty fragile too so hit them if you get the chance.

They are my main concern! Do I make it a point to send a couple Sauras after each and 'mark' them?

[DixonCider]

The Bulls are the real threat of the team, if you can take them out or tie them up then the blockers are very slow. Hobgoblins are pretty fragile too so hit them if you get the chance.

They are my main concern! Do I make it a point to send a couple Sauras after each and 'mark' them?

mark with a Skink and bash with a Sauras maybe?

[Hitonagashi]

1) Hit a hob if you get the chance
2) Don't be afraid to mark a bull that can't get assists with a skink. At rookie level, they aren't going anywhere, and a 2d block needing a pow isn't brilliant odds.
3) Attempt to get him 'ganging' up on saurii. He has 6 chaos dwarves, you have 6 saurii. If you allow him to 1-1 pair them, the bulls will rip you apart. You have to keep saurii spare, and for that, try and make sure you keep 2 CD's per 1 saurus.

I find playing CD's, the real challenge is keeping saurii free. Bulls aren't that nasty...Lizardmen are one of the only races who have a ST 4 blitzer that can keep up with them! Don't be afraid to use your skinks to blitz hobs.

Finally, do not leave skinks in tacklezones unless it's absolutely necessary. They are less fragile than you probably think, but that doesn't make them durable!

[Dzerards]

If you're feeling brave and are still allowed to edit your line up. Consider the Krox, 6 Saurii, 2 RR build. The Krox can try up 2 CDB, giving you a couple of Saurii free to hunt Hobgoblins.

[Daikaiju]

Just to follow up, we played last night. It went a lot different than I expected it to....

His dwarven line kept putting my Saurus on their tails with a one die block. His I tried to explain to him that, STATISTICALLY speaking, he can't do that, but he kept putting my Saurus down and smiling.

My Skinks were tougher than I thought. I ran them in to give an assist on quite a few occasions and the little guys held up!

I kicked off first and tried to let him score quickly so I could get a score in during the first half, then try to control for the whole second half. Yeah, except my skinks were able to get in and grab the ball and run it in for a score.... Twice...

I had an awesome screen set up, a Skink on the goal line, and a Saurus 6 squares away from the goal line. I took a chance, ran the Skink back to the Saurus, and handed it off. I had re-rolls available so my Ag 1 Saurus had a 55% chance of getting the ball. He made good on the first attempt and ran in to score!

Every chance I had I hit a hob. I hit them with 3 die blocks. I fouled them. I blitzed them... I knocked them down at least two dozen times. I only broke through armor once, and that gave him a -1 movement. I really thought I would do some more damage!

Anyway, thank you for the tips!

Daikaiju

[spubbbba]

I had an awesome screen set up, a Skink on the goal line, and a Saurus 6 squares away from the goal line. I took a chance, ran the Skink back to the Saurus, and handed it off. I had re-rolls available so my Ag 1 Saurus had a 55% chance of getting the ball. He made good on the first attempt and ran in to score!

Congrats on the win.

If you are keeping the team and developing them then this can be a very useful strategy on the Saurus. It is risky so best to only do it if you have already pretty much won the game or the ball is safe (be very careful vs AG4 teams) and you have a few turns left to try with skinks.

Saurus are phenomenal players once they get skills but will rely on luck to get cas or MVP’s otherwise. Another tactic is to recycle skinks that don’t get stats or doubles by their 3rd skill as Lizardmen can do quite well when lower TV with inducements. Aside from sidestep and diving tackle they don’t have many good normal picks and with both they are 100k so quite a lot for AV7 stunty.

Oh and I wouldn't bother fouling 40K hobgoblins unless they are the only player that can score/stop you scoring seeing as how your skinks are 60K

[Daikaiju]

Congrats on the win.

If you are keeping the team and developing them then this can be a very useful strategy on the Saurus. It is risky so best to only do it if you have already pretty much won the game or the ball is safe (be very careful vs AG4 teams) and you have a few turns left to try with skinks.

Saurus are phenomenal players once they get skills but will rely on luck to get cas or MVP’s otherwise. Another tactic is to recycle skinks that don’t get stats or doubles by their 3rd skill as Lizardmen can do quite well when lower TV with inducements. Aside from sidestep and diving tackle they don’t have many good normal picks and with both they are 100k so quite a lot for AV7 stunty.

Oh and I wouldn't bother fouling 40K hobgoblins unless they are the only player that can score/stop you scoring seeing as how your skinks are 60K

Thanks!

Yeah, I knew it was risky, but I calculated how long it would take him to get back near the ball and I was pretty sure that I would have a couple attempts to pick the ball back up if the Saurus couldn't get a grip. I just couldn't resist getting the points on the Saurus! I know they are slow to develop.

I probably shouldn't have fouled the Hobs with valuable skinks, but I wanted to get SOMEONE out. I wanted CAS points and I couldn't break ANYONEs armor with my rolls!

Thanks again for the congrats and advice! Off to Week 2 vs Skaven!

Daikaiju

[Heff]

No points for a foul casualty

[Daikaiju]

No points for a foul casualty

Crap... didn't know that. Thanks.

[spubbbba]

Don’t let that stop you though, if your opponent complains about excessive fouling then just claim you “forgot”.

Actually fouling is pretty risky now and not usually a good idea for lizardmen since your players are expensive. So it’s usually only worth it if you need that player to stay down for a turn or it is something really juicy like a wardancer (they are doubly brutal vs lizardmen since your skinks are ST2 with no block or sure hands on normals), werewolf or a nasty piling on player.

[Daikaiju]

Don’t let that stop you though, if your opponent complains about excessive fouling then just claim you “forgot”.

Actually fouling is pretty risky now and not usually a good idea for lizardmen since your players are expensive. So it’s usually only worth it if you need that player to stay down for a turn or it is something really juicy like a wardancer (they are doubly brutal vs lizardmen since your skinks are ST2 with no block or sure hands on normals), werewolf or a nasty piling on player.

Would Gutter Runners be considered "Juicy?" I was thinking they are the key players on a Skaven team. Would you consider fouling a gutter runner with a skink or are they not a worry?

[spubbbba]

Yeah I would, especially if you already have a numbers advantage. Gutters can be annoying to take down, though you just need 1 assist for 3 dice on them with a saurus. With only AV7 then it’s not that hard to injure them with a foul. Plus the skaven team really rely on them for ball handling and scoring.

Just be careful to not mess up your formation too much on defence with a gang foul as the entire team is quick, not just the gutters.

Ghouls are often worth a foul too since they are only AV7 and no regen or apoth and taking them out greatly reduces undead teams mobility.

[Hitonagashi]

Lizardman rule of thumb I normally use:

You don't need all 4 skinks on the pitch. You can afford to 'lose' 2 of them before you get into trouble. Whether you 'lose' them by marking players, or by fouling, it doesn't really matter.

The corollary to this is that once you have lost 2, the other 2 are absolutely vital. Do not let them get hit, because you *will* need them to ball handle, and you can't take the chance on a lucky cas, or just even a foul once they are down!

Hence, if you have a lot of players, then you can afford to foul. However, fouling on turn 1 and losing a skink means that you only have 1 'spare' av 7 stunty piece for the entire game...so choose your fouls wisely!