Games Day anyone? (Now with added Khorne roster)

[Darkson]

Not what we've been presented with.
Now, I know you know this, so I expect this is more of the "hands tied but I can't talk about it" bit, but then that goes back to walking away, and letting Cyanide sink in their own incompetence.

And of course, screws any chance of getting a decent Khorne roster added in the future from GW/a resurrected BBRC.

[GalakStarscraper]

and letting Cyanide sink in their own incompetence.

And of course, screws any chance of getting a decent Khorne roster added in the future from GW

I think you missed my post on last page of discussion Simon ... this was NOT just Cyanide!!!!

There is a VERY real possibility that this team could at some point show up in the CRP because of the parties involved during the design.

What was proposed could have become CRP official in the near future. Seeing an NAF debate on not allowing an official CRP team into the NAF rankings because it is so horribly designed BUT IN THE OFFICIAL RULEBOOK when I and the other player coaches on the committee had the ability to modify it; well I'm glad the player coaches on the committee don't roll like you, Garion and harvestmouse. You might have just used it as another reason for why CRP sucks ... I can get that. But a lot of us actually like this ruleset, so I won't apologize for trying to defend the overall rules from brokeness being added.

Let me put this another way. You are betting/believing/and sure of the fact that the roster would have died ... I'm telling you in my opinion you really are very wrong on this. The original roster would have made it in (not today or tomorrow ... but it would be in at some point in the future). Go look again at the 4th edition OFFICIAL teams and tell me how GW hubris is not large enough to post a broken team as official.

Tom

[DixonCider]

Which isn't really what anyone wants, but that's what the theme demanded.

As someone who makes a living as a game/miniature designer currently, this sentence makes no real world sense to me.

My customers won't like it ... but screw them I need to make something bad because its "what the theme demanded".

Could not disagree more.

Effectively you are saying that a Khorne team was BY DEFINITION doomed to be hated. So if that is true ... I'm pretty happy since I have several folks on this thread who like the roster and look forward to playing it.

As for the 3 folks that have posted that the right thing was to walk away and let it fail. Your opinion is that it failed now, but TFF have several people disagreeing with you so you appear to not be a mass wave of agreement on your position. With that said, I KNOW that pretty much everyone would have hated the roster that would have happened without the help of the player committee. So I'll take the opinion of some that we failed vs just completely failing. Effectively I have the same with my work on LRB 5.0 and 6.0. Some feel we uttered failed ... but enough disagree that I'm glad I was there to help make it what it is. I posted once upon a time the original concepts for the CRP ... that was what could have happened without a player committee to change it.

Tom

Sounds like you had the best interest of the BB community in mind and tried to work with what you were given to make a team that was different from what is currently available but still be balanced. Seems reasonable to me

[Darkson]

Broken and fluffy, or balanced and bland/unfluffy.
Not sure what's worse.

[SillySod]

Broken and fluffy, or balanced and bland/unfluffy.
Not sure what's worse.

One spoils the game. One does not.

Easy choice.

[Heff]

Me, l don't like it. I feel its un necessary, particularly when there was a really unique team in Slann available.
BUT

It was going to be done, Gw love their stupid op demons and that was what we were about to get reading between the lines. The 9 7 5 12 frenzy block mb horns claw monstrosity was round the corner. Galak and others did what they could and all you decent players are going to have big fun watching the Muppets on cyanide mm screw up with the team.

I think standing there,and stamping your feet about what he should have done to keep the faith is misguided. If you don't think Galak is not completely aware of what GW are you have either just got off the boat or have the memory of a guppy.

[nazgob]

Galak, I'd like to simply say this:

I like the fluff image I get with this team

I like the mass frenzy

I like that this team is different to the others (including Norse - Norse are reliable)

I like that this is not Claw-PoMB

I like that this is not overpowered

[Darkson]

Who cares about Cyanide MM? Couple of years, when the money stops, the plug will get pulled on the servers, and MM will be a thing of the past. Why ruin what could be a good roster to placate Toerags now? And since when did MM or Cyanidr become important? BB is a tabletop game first and foremost.

[Darkson]

Broken and fluffy, or balanced and bland/unfluffy.
Not sure what's worse.

One spoils the game. One does not.

Easy choice.

Maybe for powergamers. I prefer fluff and story to absolute balance, if absolute balance means we get given rubbish like this.

[dode74]

Broken and fluffy, or balanced and bland/unfluffy.
Not sure what's worse.

One spoils the game. One does not.

Easy choice.

Maybe for powergamers. I prefer fluff and story to absolute balance, if absolute balance means we get given rubbish like this.

False dichotomy? There is fluff - some see it, some do not: clearly you are in the "not" camp. Some care about it, some do not: clearly you are in the "do" camp. There is also balance, although clearly not absolute.

[dsavillian]

Who cares about Cyanide MM? Couple of years, when the money stops, the plug will get pulled on the servers, and MM will be a thing of the past. Why ruin what could be a good roster to placate Toerags now? And since when did MM or Cyanidr become important? BB is a tabletop game first and foremost.

Fumbbl and the new FFB client say hello!

[SillySod]

I prefer fluff and story to absolute balance, if absolute balance means we get given rubbish like this.

If the team was fluffy and overpowered then you would see it everywhere. However, with the current setup you will only encounter them once in every twenty five games and probably not even that.

Even if you really hate the fluff (and I'm sure you would hate overpoweredness too) surely you can see that one option is more damaging than the other?

[Heff]

And fluff would have made this a broken mess because the fluff says they are murderous bstards. You would have got a pile of str4 pile on mb claw abominations.
What l do like is that to get this to work you need to think. The fanboy powergamers are going to try this, moan and go back to chaos. The straight powergamers won't touch it cos they know its limited. The rest of us may come to accept it. As l say l feel its un-needed but in life some things you need to accept.

Except dwarves.

[dsavillian]

My first reaction to the roster was "ugh."

But after sitting on it for a few days, I'd be ok with the roster if the NAF ended up approving it. I figure it would have to be vetted pretty thoroughly to make it onto the NAF scene and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

[Lunchab1es]

I think he felt that he had two options:

1 - walk away and let the process take its course
2 - take part and have some input into the roster

Given that situation I think that most people would want to take part if they thought they could have some sort of positive influence on the roster.

#1 - would have been so laughingly bad, everyone with an ounce of sense would have ignored it.
#2 - gives a perfumed turd. Better than we would have got, but still not something I want on my coffeetable.

#1 sounds the better option to me.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. I'm not sure why you think that if the roster were poorly designed from a gameplay perspective that it would have just faded into nonexistence. Maybe in your own local league you have this option, but it seems a bit of a narrowed viewpoint to believe that if you shut your eyes, cover your ears, and yell "this game is owned by the players, not GW or cyanide!" That it makes it true.

Yes it is a bizarre situation that at THIS MOMENT we have a team created not by GW itself but officially sanctioned and blessed by it. So it's not in the CRP, and the NAF had nothing to do with it, but a 3rd party made it, and you don't want to accept it like that, I get it. Seems pretty obvious though that part of the overall GW business strategy here is to have cyanide implement a team that, should GW ever want to "officially" add to the CRP 2.0 or whatever, they can do it seamlessly as it conforms to their standards. They are leaving that option open for themselves obviously, ergo it is a possibility that it may come to pass, regardless of past experiences. And if/when this happens, will you still refuse to acknowledge them despite the roster being a part of the game?

It would certainly become an awkward schism when a new BB coach, having been introduced to the game by cyanide, shows up to the local TT league enthusiastically with his painted Khorne team in tow, is told "no I'm sorry we play by our own rules where we disallow official teams that don't fit our idea of what their theme should be". what a turn off to newbies!

So why anyone in their right mind who had the power to help make the best out of a suboptimal situation, would refuse and have to deal with far worse consequences down the line, seems remarkably short sighted. It just doesn't seem to be in the best interest in the future health of the game.

No, the roster isn't perfect, but it is far better than getting stuck with a way overpowered, codex creep CPOMB monstrosity that is officially sanctioned a few years down the line.