Games Day anyone? (Now with added Khorne roster)

[SillySod]

If it does get NAF'ed I'm making a team so I can be the first to do 'the 25'!

The Khorne roster will almost certainly be legal in the next Albion Coast Cup.

I doubt it will be a NAF sanctioned team at that point mind you - these things take time and I imagine that the NAF will want to see what happens with the playerbase before making any serious decisions.

[plasmoid]

Hi Harvestmouse,
I'll write properly when I have bit more time, but for the record I find myself between the two poles.

I just wanted to say that I disagree that T3 = AV8.
AV8 = T3 with an armor save.
Otherwise I dont see how norse and amazons could be AV7.
Heck, gobbos are T3 too.

Cheers
Martin

[Manuel]

Hi again:

It seems there are 2 different threads running here.

Galak: As far as my little knowledge about your language allows me, I think I have gotten your point. In no way do I disrespect the work you have done in the past, nor the effort in trying that these team would not develop as something unbalanced. Personally I have read the roster only once, and I haven't fullfilled my opinion about it yet.

My concerns are about the way the NAF will treat whatever roster (or rule) Cyanide or GW wishes to create "out of the nothing" (and by this I mean, without being tested like the previous ones).
Anyway, I'll be waiting for Lyco's announcement.

[GalakStarscraper]

Galak: As far as my little knowledge about your language allows me, I think I have gotten your point. In no way do I disrespect the work you have done in the past, nor the effort in trying that these team would not develop as something unbalanced. Personally I have read the roster only once, and I haven't fullfilled my opinion about it yet.

My post really wasn't aimed at you.

My concerns are about the way the NAF will treat whatever roster (or rule) Cyanide or GW wishes to create "out of the nothing" (and by this I mean, without being tested like the previous ones).
Anyway, I'll be waiting for Lyco's announcement.

Talking to Lycos and discussion on the NAF forums is your best bet here.

Tom

[harvestmouse]

I can't really understand why you didn't walk away Galak, if you weren't in the position to bargain. It sounds like the project was never salvageable. Looking at the initial roster, that's almost certain.

If you couldn't add the negtrait (which in my mind doesn't seem hard to code) then you should have limited the positionals. If you couldn't do that, then I think you should have walked away, it was a bodge job at best.

If they're willing to make the project so bad and unwilling to compromise, let them flounder in their own stinkage, rather than perfuming it.

If any team was meant to be a clawpomb team it was this one. That's why Khorne was an alarming choice. However I'm ok with it not having mutations. It's prime goal though should be letting blood before being removed themselves. A 1 trick pony. Which isn't really what anyone wants, but that's what the theme demanded.

I could understand a middle ground being met there though for game balance sake, but Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters not being portrayed (physically) as they historically should be, is the real let down and I think you are at least partially responsible for that one.

I don't think it would have been seen to be negative towards you, if you let Cyanide stew in the bile they created. In fact it may have been for the better. At least that way they could see the error of their ways (bad idea, bad fluff and broken roster), compared to what we have now, upset the purists, but a conservative enough roster not to make any waves vs anyone who plays against it.

@Plasmoid Ok T3 Save 6 is probably AV 8.

I don't think it's that important to be so exact that, as war armour and football armour aren't exactly the same. A little leeway here and there is acceptable.

[SillySod]

I can't really understand why you didn't walk away Galak, if you weren't in the position to bargain.

I think he felt that he had two options:

1 - walk away and let the process take its course
2 - take part and have some input into the roster

Given that situation I think that most people would want to take part if they thought they could have some sort of positive influence on the roster.

[Darkson]

I think he felt that he had two options:

1 - walk away and let the process take its course
2 - take part and have some input into the roster

Given that situation I think that most people would want to take part if they thought they could have some sort of positive influence on the roster.

#1 - would have been so laughingly bad, everyone with an ounce of sense would have ignored it.
#2 - gives a perfumed turd. Better than we would have got, but still not something I want on my coffeetable.

#1 sounds the better option to me.

[GalakStarscraper]

Which isn't really what anyone wants, but that's what the theme demanded.

As someone who makes a living as a game/miniature designer currently, this sentence makes no real world sense to me.

My customers won't like it ... but screw them I need to make something bad because its "what the theme demanded".

Could not disagree more.

Effectively you are saying that a Khorne team was BY DEFINITION doomed to be hated. So if that is true ... I'm pretty happy since I have several folks on this thread who like the roster and look forward to playing it.

As for the 3 folks that have posted that the right thing was to walk away and let it fail. Your opinion is that it failed now, but TFF have several people disagreeing with you so you appear to not be a mass wave of agreement on your position. With that said, I KNOW that pretty much everyone would have hated the roster that would have happened without the help of the player committee. So I'll take the opinion of some that we failed vs just completely failing. Effectively I have the same with my work on LRB 5.0 and 6.0. Some feel we uttered failed ... but enough disagree that I'm glad I was there to help make it what it is. I posted once upon a time the original concepts for the CRP ... that was what could have happened without a player committee to change it.

Tom

[GalakStarscraper]

#1 - would have been so laughingly bad, everyone with an ounce of sense would have ignored it.
#2 - gives a perfumed turd. Better than we would have got, but still not something I want on my coffeetable.

#1 sounds the better option to me.

If I remember correctly ... you had a similar opinion on the entire work of what became the CRP at one point as well my friend. But then you added later that if it was going to happen it was better that #2 occurred than #1.

You are basing your comments on a belief that GW will never edit the CRP ... I don't have your conviction on that note. Wish I could share what could have gone in the CRP if they edit it ... it was NOT just Cyanide driving the bus on this design ... so don't think it would not have effected you for NAF purposes and it was JUST a Cyanide issue ... it wasn't.

I'd much rather have the debate on a roster that is not overpowered and different should or should not be allowed in the NAF (but with the knowledge that if it was added to the CRP by GW that it would not upset the apple cart) VS trying to decide if the NAF should BAN an official CRP team because it is clearly massively screwed up.

This 2nd scenario for the NAF could EASILY happen. Takes minutes to edit the CRP if GW wanted to do it. So put yourself in my shoes there and tell me again I did the wrong thing. I maintain not helping was the wrong things for the game and the community.

Tom

[Darkson]

Yep, and I was right there as well.

[harvestmouse]

Well my position is clear, and I made it clear why.

I've been terse, rude and sarcastic about it on a variety of forums now, and anyone who needs to know my feelings, probably does know. So I'll leave it now, but with the following thought:

If somebody gives you a rotten apple, and you use it to make an apple crumble, what does that say about your ability to cook?

[GalakStarscraper]

Yep, and I was right there as well.

Fair enough. Than on this topic ... as with Harvestmouse's position. There was no way to win no matter what for your opinion. The very addition of a Khorne roster no matter what it was would have generated the same posts you are now making whether a player committee helped or not.

[GalakStarscraper]

If somebody gives you a rotten apple, and you use it to make an apple crumble, what does that say about your ability to cook?

If as many people like the crumble as the number of folks that have posted they are interested in trying this roster ... its means that person is a D&MN good cook.

[Darkson]

Fair enough. Than on this topic ... as with Harvestmouse's position. There was no way to win no matter what for your opinion. The very addition of a Khorne roster no matter what it was would have generated the same posts you are now making whether a player committee helped or not.

Wrong. A fluffy roster I could have supported, even if designed for (what IMO) an inferior ruleset (just like I supported Underworld and the revamped Norse). This is insupportable - hell, it makes JJ's Chaos Pact look well-designed.

[GalakStarscraper]

Wrong. A fluffy roster I could have supported

Fair enough ... what is a fluffy roster?

Tom