Games Day anyone? (Now with added Khorne roster)

[ulvardar]

I didn't use Warhammer fluff when I built the Slann team, the Underworld team OR the Chaos Pact team

That's true. But you also need not to, as you already had the fluff for the 3 races created. Remember Chaos All-Stars, Underworld Creepers and Lustrian Croakers (or similar slann team in old editions)? There you had the fluff, you need not to use any warhammer fluff.

You even had Khorne fluff. Here it is:

Khorne's Killers: Considered by many to be the archetypal
Chaos Blood Bowl team, this collection of homicidal (and
elficidal, dwarficidal, orcicidal - in fact everythingicidal!) maniacs
are the terror of the Blood Bowl pitch. Their bloodthirsty attitude
means that they rarely worry about minor things like picking up
the ball and scoring - not while there are any players left in the
opposing team, anyway! They either win by lots of lose by lots.

Published by GW on their BBbackground.pdf document.

Now... does that roster look as "everythingcidal"?

I don't like the team, specially as i consider it very unfluffy for khorne. But i understand that creating another chaos team would have been the same problem than creating pro elves and retiring high elves, or creating khemri and necro to retire undead, not a possible situation.

Probably you are right regarding unique playstyle and all.... but it's not a khorne team (and why a bloodthirster would ever be as strong as a troll? Change the name at least!!)

[dode74]

Who said they were a Khorne team? They're even described as "archetypal chaos".

[GalakStarscraper]

Now... does that roster look as "everythingcidal"?

Yes it does. everythingcidal can easily mean out of control and attacking without regard to safety. I see that with this roster. You don't ... we disagree ... to me its that easy.

Probably you are right regarding unique playstyle and all.... but it's not a khorne team (and why a bloodthirster would ever be as strong as a troll? Change the name at least!!)

To state it like this to really completely ignore the skills.

Rookie Troll blitzes a rookie Khemri Tomb Guardian. One dice block, knocks down opponent 50% of the time and falls down himself 33% of the time (assuming no rerolls).

Rookie Bloodthirster blitzes a rookie Khemri Guardian. Two dice block, knock down opponent 79% of the time and falls down himself 4% of the time (assuming no rerolls).

So really the Bloodthirster is no stronger than the Troll? Blood Bowl is more than just the 4 stats of a player.

Tom/Galak

[Darkson]

Sorry you feel that way Tom. I know you had your hands tied, but if you think that that gives you leeway to ignore fluff and then claim you did a great job....let's just say we beg to differ.

I'm not actually complaining about the roster itself (other than the P access), but it's not Khorne. That's like taking my Fiat car, sticking a Ferrari badge on it, and claiming it's a Ferrari. Sure,it's got an engine, 4 wheels and gets me from A to B, but it's not the real thing.

[GalakStarscraper]

I know you had your hands tied, but if you think that that gives you leeway to ignore fluff and then claim you did a great job....let's just say we beg to differ.

And that is where we will agree to differ. At no point have I said I ignored fluff ... you did ... I'm not. I don't think we did ignore the fluff. So yes my friend we agree to disagree but at no point have I ever said I needed leeway. Those are your words ... not mine.

[garion]

I really think you are kidding your self if you think this roster fits the fluff.

I agree mass Frenzy is a little different to the 5 you get on norse. But 5 is all you'd ever need. any more is a negative. So if you want a frenzy heavy team that is competative play them, if you want to play a rubbish team with frenzy lay these. I too played with Savage Orcs. Not a massive fan of the roster tbh, though it was better than this one (in terms of competitiveness) on account of the 2 Black savages and the cheaper Big Guys. There is no St4 in this team. and don't say there is horns because that equates to 1 extra St4 blitz a turn which Savage Orcs had too, because the blitzers had horns for some daft reason.

I never mentioned WFB when talking about Slann, UW or CP. I just said you stuck to the existing fluff. Which you just haven't done at all here.

As you said Khorne are about killing and mayhem. Cant remember the full khorne team article from all those years ago, but I seem to remember Bloodletters playing on juggernauts killing every last player on the opposing team then steeds were banned from that point forth in bloodbowl. Also Remember 4th ed gold bloodthirster being a damn site better than a mino with juggernaut and av9. Now I would've hated it personally but at least it would have fit if you had a deathroller type juggernaut player in there with SW skill. Also I dont see much killing potential in this team, I see a lot of tactical surfing, tactical shouldn't be in Khornes vocab, just killing should be and they suck at it and their players are all very soft.

And I know this is different to the Warhammer universe but not THAT different. Certainly not different enough to give bloodlettes st3 av7 and A access. Also what on earth has pit fighters got to do with Khorne and why give them access to P skills other than a cookie cutter way to get Leader.

Sorry but this team is just awful. Truly awful. You have to respect the fluff in warhammer when creating bloodbowl teams as soo many teams since 3rd ed were influenced solely by warhammer. Lizardmen being the perfect example. If they were influenced by Bloodbowl they should have been cave dwelling lizards with disturbing presence. But they weren't, they were Sauri, Krox and skink from the jungle just like WFB.

The bloodbowl world is massively influenced by Warhammer, even bizzare references to marienburg and magrita are contained in the background of bloodbowl. Heck the spike magazine trophy resides in Magrita.

To do what you have and completely ignore how letters and thirsters are in warhammer is just a complete cop out. Why have those two players in representing khorne at all if the inspiration was not from warhammer?

Finally Bloodthirster weaker than a treeman is a joke, a really bad one. Yes he has skills that make his St higher and gives him better odds at avoiding turn over, but base stats do count and he shoud be St6 no doubt. At the moment he is just a huge TV sink and not worth a penny of it.

Can't tell you enough quite how terrible this is.

I honestly thought you had made it this bad on purpose. I'm truly truly shocked.

[Hitonagashi]

I'm not going as far as Garion, I quite like the roster, but the best 'bad comparison for a bloodthirster' I've seen is...a goblin fanatic.

A goblin whirring a spiked chain around his head is significantly stronger than the living embodiment of the god of slaughter?

Khorne has a new favourite!

[robsoma]

ulvardar/pako I am unsure of what you are trying to imply by your post to me? I do not consider the CRP to be the rules, I fully acknowledge them as the official rules as supplied by GW. This is a statement of fact and not subjective. I am fully aware of the history behind the CRP (it is a basterdisation of LRB6) I thank you for allowing me to use the official rules, may I ask which rules you use? Further I am fully aware of what the NAF is and I have been attending NAF sanctioned tournaments since 2003 (someone needs to check their facts in the future) as a regular tournament attendee the CRP are the only rules I use, as you don't I would presume that you do not attend NAF sanctioned tournaments?

[dode74]

Garion, I disagree with you about many of the the fluff aspects. Sure, Bloodletters are S5 and T3 in WFB and some think that ST3 with AV7/regen is a bit low. Well, elves are T3 in WFB, and they are AV7 without regen in BB. And when all is said and done, when it comes to straight stats then so what? The player is not all about stats: skills make a massive difference to the basics in BB, more so that in WFB I would argue.

Out of the box the 6 lesser daemons are the best blitzers in the game (all get 2d blitzes with only 1/36 odds of failure against any ST3 player), and the Bloodthirster is the best Big Guy in the game by quite a way. We're talking about a "race" which charges down the enemy and overcomes them, creating chaos while it does so, but is fairly fragile if they get bogged down toe-to-toe. Well, that's what this team does.

[RogueThirteen]

[Corvidius]

The fact that folks have ripped into the names players have been given is pretty lame. Let's see, a Chaos god of war and bloodshed, a martial god whose followers kill because it's in their nature, I think Pit Fighters work quite well within that theme. Cultists? Nah, Khorne is a god of warriors, not robe wearing ninnies. Thugs, yep they are violent but they aren't really pure killers, they're untrained thugs. As for Marauders, we already have them, sticking Khorne to the front of their name doesn't differentiate enough, it's the same reason why I prefer Ulfwerener to Norse Werewolf and the same reason Thralls aren't just called "Vampire Hobgoblins".

Would I have loved to see more St4 on the team, probably, Would I have liked to see more Mighty Blow on the team, probably, but Frenzy was definitely right up there on my list of Khornate skills. An all frenzy team has actually been discussed by folks for years as something they would love to try, now they can. More St 4 would have made things a little too easy I think. I would probably have put Regen on all the specialists but I think that would have driven the costs up.

I WAS well prepared to hate the roster as an overpowered monster but I actually see a lot of interesting potential. Sidestep on the Ag access players to setup Frenzy combos. Not necessarily the highest team on my list of interest to play just now but definitely one I like the look of.

[Lunchab1es]

Well at the very least, the addition of a frenzy-laden team into the mix should increase the meta value of Stand Firm, which in turn means that Flesh Golems are underpriced, which in turn means that Necro is OP and must be nerfed.

[Waldorf28]

I couldn't give a toss about GW fluff - and all the evidence would suggest they couldn't either.

As long as the *BB* fluff is internally consistent that's good enough for me. And let's not forget - BB doesn't really *belong* to GW anymore - it now belongs to us, the community.

I think Galak and the other designers roped to Cyanide's rickety cart did a great job

[Shteve0]

Funny.

Personally, I hate the names. We've previously talked about the positionals on other teams being renamed unless specific fluff exists for them, and I honestly find these names really offputting.

If I disconnect the players and the roster from the idea I have of khorne, I find I dislike it much less, though it's hard to do that with the bloodletter and bloodthirster in there. Strongly agree this playstyle experiment would have been better without the Khorne association.

Disagree that bloodletters should be anything other than ST3+horns, though, or that linemen shouldn't be st3 frenzy. Frenzy is very much everythingcidal. Lack of Dauntless and s4 are suprising. Juggernaut is an interesting addition, though costing as full block is unfortunate. Can see the rationale for P access - leader - but sits very uneasily with the design.

Would have much preffered something like this (advance warning, it's very similar):

0-16 Cultist 50k 6338 frenzy G/ASPM
0-4 Bloodletter 80k 6338 horns, frenzy, juggernaut GA/SPM
0-2 Khorne Warrior 100k 5429 frenzy GS/APM
0-1 Herald of Khorne ?k 5519 loner, horns, frenzy, juggernaut, claw S/GAP

[deanup]

I couldn't give a toss about GW fluff - and all the evidence would suggest they couldn't either.

As long as the *BB* fluff is internally consistent that's good enough for me. And let's not forget - BB doesn't really *belong* to GW anymore - it now belongs to us, the community.

I think Galak and the other designers roped to Cyanide's rickety cart did a great job

GW don't give a toss about BB or BB fluff so why should we.

I have no idea what a Khorne team should or should not be, I am just thinking along three lines;
1) Tom has had some input...seriously that is good enough for me.
2) Frenzy all over the shop and pass skills for linemen....cool a different team for us to have fun with.
3) Whatever way you look at it continued development in this game we all love. GW may ignore it, but I look forward to Greebo's Khorne miniatures!!!

Obvious thing to do is say, gosh these chaps are jolly red and evil looking, lets give them chaos teamsheet + frenzy and maybe a few free claw players with access to Strength skills....boring....!

What we have is a team that will look awesome, can play as appallingly as Vamps yet sling the ball around and crash half the oppo team into the crowd. Dorfs without stand firm may find a few issues against this lot.

Hats off for making a 25th team that we probably did not need, as they are so different. Would we have all wished for another elf team or bash team variant 3+?

Can everyone just stop moaning at new stuff, if you don't like it don't play it, but don't complain if

1) You are a GW Warhammer fluff geek....if you are you are in the wrong universe.
2) You play against a frenzy passing bunch of lunatics that send half your team into the crowd and whip the lily white asses of your favoured team (or green if Orc etc)

I'm looking forward to playing these devils and playing against them. If they need refining then I reckon that can come later.

Any development of BB is to be applauded especially semi official stuff so lets all just calm down and enjoy.

Off for a lie down

Dean