Games Day anyone? (Now with added Khorne roster)

[GalakStarscraper]

deanup,

The target is to have them play in a normal league in that same abilities level as Slann, Chaos Pact and Underworld. Able to win but having some built in disadvantages.

As for the playtesting ... you'll need to talk to someone else.

Because of my work with Impact! I'm normally working from 6am to Midnight pretty much every day ... non-working time is anymore a luxery item. However this request was an important one and one I took seriously so I set aside the time to make sure I helped discuss and design the roster, but I simply did not have time to do the playtesting. A different team did the playtesting and so far the roster survived that playtesting which was a good sign. However other than knowing that no changes occurred to the roster the player coach development team designed for Khorne ... I don't know the details of their strengths and weaknesses during play.

I also don't know if the playtesters were prohibited by the NDA from talking about it. Wish I could help but just being honest that I was a front end player in design phase and not much after.

Tom/Galak

[Smeborg]

So the big question is will tournaments and leagues allow this team? They are sort of more “official” than Pact and Slann now if you count this as a GW product.

For now I can't see a good reason not to allow this team in leagues and tournaments. I expect to allow them in our next league and tourney.

The team has decent starting rosters at 100/110/115 TV, so I am guessing that while they may not be over-powered, they may not be under-powered at the start, whether in tourneys or leagues. They are perhaps (relatively) stronger out of the box in tourneys, thanks to a bit more cash and Leader.

All the best.

[deanup]

deanup,

The target is to have them play in a normal league in that same abilities level as Slann, Chaos Pact and Underworld. Able to win but having some built in disadvantages.

As for the playtesting ... you'll need to talk to someone else.

Because of my work with Impact! I'm normally working from 6am to Midnight pretty much every day ... non-working time is anymore a luxery item. However this request was an important one and one I took seriously so I set aside the time to make sure I helped discuss and design the roster, but I simply did not have time to do the playtesting. A different team did the playtesting and so far the roster survived that playtesting which was a good sign. However other than knowing that no changes occurred to the roster the player coach development team designed for Khorne ... I don't know the details of their strengths and weaknesses during play.

I also don't know if the playtesters were prohibited by the NDA from talking about it. Wish I could help but just being honest that I was a front end player in design phase and not much after.

Tom/Galak

Hi Tom

Many thanks for coming back to me, I am just very pleased that you have been involved in this process given the way you have been treated in the recent past.

your favoured 'flings vs Khorne would no doubt make for an interesting spectacle!!!

All the very best

Dean

PS Anyone else out there got any thoughts on the points I put to Tom?

[ulvardar]

So the big question is will tournaments and leagues allow this team? They are sort of more “official” than Pact and Slann now if you count this as a GW product.

For now I can't see a good reason not to allow this team in leagues and tournaments. I expect to allow them in our next league and tourney.

There's a difference. Each league can do whatever they choose. But tourneys (at least, NAF tourneys) are based on the current LRB. And this team is not in the LRB, so.... In our tourney, at least (i know, a very little tourney in Spain) it won't be allowed until it's added to the LRB.

It's strange you consider them more official than Slann and Pact, both teams are in the LRB and approved by everyone on the BB community; but now GW (not even GW, just Cyanide) says it's legal, and veteran players like you run to consider it official just because GW says it. It's a bit cynical, considering the number of "I hate GW, to hell with them, LRB rules" threads in this forum, but now...

Not meaning directly Smeborg or Supbbbba or anyone, they posted it, but i'm just talking in a wide sense.... excuse my bad english, i'm not usual english user.

[robsoma]

If I remember correctly LRB is not the official rules for BB, that would be the CRP (Competition Rules PAck) available from GW site and the Slann, Pact and underworld teams are not part of this.

@ Tom, do you know if GW has plans to add the Khorne roster to the CRP? Is the CRP still linked to from cyanide as 'The Rules' as it would probably be a bit strange to have a team in the game but not the rules?

[Darkson]

@ Tom, do you know if GW has plans to add the Khorne roster to the CRP? Is the CRP still linked to from cyanide as 'The Rules' as it would probably be a bit strange to have a team in the game but not the rules?

Cyanide are adding Underworld as well.

[GalakStarscraper]

I have no ideas what GW plans for the rules of this great game.

The player coach committee worked to make a roster that we felt would be balanced and could become the 25th team for the BB community.

I have no pull with GW or with the NAF. I cannot tell you what the plans are of either.

I do know that GW did give its blessing of the roster for use with the Cyanide game ... but what does that mean in the grand scale (ie will they ever change the free CRP download to add in the Khorne team) ... I don't know.

Personally I would have no issue if this became the 25th official NAF team. I also have no issue if it does not. My biggest goal when designing the roster was making sure that if the NAF WAS ever pushed to add it to the list of allowed teams for their tournament tracking that I could live with the design that was created.

I'm happy with the design given the constraints that were in place on the design and would not have a problem in a tournament playing or playing against the team. One of my better skills in BB is chain pushing so I might actually enjoy giving this team a whirl.

Since I will never play again in a GW sponsered BB tournament most likely ... my personal concern when designing the team was to make sure if I ever went to a NAF event that had the team allowed that I would be okay that that had happened as a result of my working on the project. I can honestly say ... I'm okay with it if that ever happens.

Tom

[spubbbba]

It's strange you consider them more official than Slann and Pact, both teams are in the LRB and approved by everyone on the BB community; but now GW (not even GW, just Cyanide) says it's legal, and veteran players like you run to consider it official just because GW says it. It's a bit cynical, considering the number of "I hate GW, to hell with them, LRB rules" threads in this forum, but now...

Not meaning directly Smeborg or Supbbbba or anyone, they posted it, but i'm just talking in a wide sense.... excuse my bad english, i'm not usual english user.

Well I did put 3 separate caveats in my post as "official" is a strange concept when it comes to tournaments, there are regular arguments about if Forgeworld models are official for 40K.

But as others have said Slann, Pact and Underworld are not acknowledged in the crp ruleset posted on the GW website whilst the Khorne team was done with GW's full approval. Although we may not like it it is still their game so they can add or take away any teams they wish from the rules. Of course we can freely ignore them and in tournaments not on GW property can use any ruleset or teams we wish. So if the BB community wants to add Khorne teams they can, just like we could have a team of Fishmen, Space Marines, Chaos toilets or my little ponies if we wanted.

[GalakStarscraper]

But as others have said Slann, Pact and Underworld are not acknowledged in the crp ruleset posted on the GW website whilst the Khorne team was done with GW's full approval.

Minor point of correction. Underworld was added to the Cyanide game with GW's approval.

So we currently have 4 Tiers of teams right now (as I see it):

Tier 1: (22 teams) Allowed by NAF and Approved by GW: (21 in the CRP + Underworld)
Tier 2: (2 teams) Allowed by NAF through 100% BBRC endorsement (3 years running): Slann and Chaos Pact
Tier 3: (1 team) Approved by GW: Khorne
Tier 4: All the other concepts thrown out and used on and off throughout the game's history but neither NAF or GW endorsed

[ulvardar]

If I remember correctly LRB is not the official rules for BB, that would be the CRP (Competition Rules PAck) available from GW site and the Slann, Pact and underworld teams are not part of this.

Maybe i'm wrong, but that CRP are only official rules for GW tournaments, that are great, but about 1% of the tournaments held on a year (and that's just in Europe).

Well, to be honest, GW tourneys are not that great. You can only use GW miniatures and all.....

But, to avoid going off-topic, and to resume it: For NAF tourneys, LRB.

After reading last posts, i edit mine: As long as NAF does not say anything, Khorne should only be accepted on GW tourneys. Or at least it's my point of view. The opposite happens with slann and pact, not accepted in GW tourneys.

So... how many tourneys do GW held on a year? Maybe 4? I'm not sure, just asking.

P.D.- Spubbba, as i told before, it's nothing personal. Please take no offence by my previous post

[Corvidius]

I kinda look at official in a different way I guess, for me it's not enough that GW goes that team is acceptable because they are being specific to the computer game so I see it more like

All the teams in CRP are official TT Bloodbowl teams for general use.

CRP+3 (Underworld, Pact and Slann) are official for NAF tournies/leagues and Fumbbl

CRP+2 (Underworld and Khorne) are official for Cyanide

CRP+/-X for random leagues/tournies

At least, as it presently stands anyway. I kinda only see the CRP teams as official even if the others are generally accepted (and I have no real objection to them being official) teams. But ultimately I don't get to say what is and isn't official, the book already does that right? ;P

[Anglakhel]

Galak,

Are you allowed to say anything else about what restrictions/requirements you had to deal with while designing the roster?

You mentioned the Bloodthirster had to be in and was supposed to be the strongest Big Guy.

Anything else you can be specific about?

I think the roster looks interesting and well designed. It certainly appears as if it will offer a new type of play style. Unfortunately though I find it distracting that I don't find it to be a very faithful representation of Khorne as a Chaos Power. I think the game balance needs and the need for novelty in play style were at odds with the chosen Daemons that they wanted to make up the team.

I've always thought the vanilla Chaos roster was already most influenced by Khorne and it feels a bit redundant to do a Daemons of Khorne roster.

[GalakStarscraper]

I think I pushed the NDA as far as I should ... sorry ... wish I could just sit down and honestly discuss the full design process included all the rules we were given at the beginning of the things that had to happen.

Tom

[Anglakhel]

Np.

I suspected as much. Thanks for what information you have been able to share.

I'm looking forward to seeing the roster in action.

[Odium Khan]

After reading last posts, i edit mine: As long as NAF does not say anything, Khorne should only be accepted on GW tourneys. Or at least it's my point of view. The opposite happens with slann and pact, not accepted in GW tourneys.

No, Khorne should only be accepted at Cyanide tournaments. What's with this notion I see floating about that Cyanide equals GW?

And didn't the latest three LRB6 teams go through rigorous, open-access playtesting by the community before they were endorsed by the NAF/BBRC? What makes people think the Khorne team should be allowed to bypass this mechanism?