Pond Scum (a system for Slann)

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:52 pm

My attention is now turning towards Slann (Pond Scum will be their name). I was hoping to play Khemri next season, but this season's league winner (with Undead) wants to play Khemri. So I will probably play something else for the sake of racial variety (we are a small league of 10 or so coaches).

I have made a few league starts with Slann, enough to learn some of what does not suit me. I am now ready to test the following formula in a mid-length TT format (say 20 games, mixed race, quite competitive, chosen MVP likely):

- No Blitzers, no Krox.

- Start with 4 Catchers, 7 Linefrogs, 5 RR (or 4 RR + Apoth). Final roster would have 14 players and 4 or 5 RR (nice lean TV of 117/122).

- Catchers go: Dodge, Block, S-Step, Fend, S-Hands (I might drop Fend if P-On is not too common in the league). Guard on doubles.

- Linefrogs all start with Wrestle (Guard on doubles). 4 Linefrogs take as their second skill (in order): S-Ball, Kick, Tackle, Tackle. Next 4 Linefrogs [edit: I mean last 6] take Fend after Wrestle (they are the true Linos, the first 4 Linefrogs to develop do not go on the line).

- Stat increases: Catchers take +MA, +ST, +AG and Linefrogs take +ST, +AG only.

And that's about it, I don't want to over-complicate what is quite a clean system. By way of background, I notice that tournament teams do not take Blitzers (because they are over-priced), and rarely take the Krox (less over-priced, but still the cost of a Catcher + a Linefrog). Both player-types have frustrated me in leagues, for the same reason, but also for other reasons: they contribute little to what the Slann do best (ball-hunting), they lead to high TV once 4 or 5 RR are added, and they cause money problems when they need to be replaced. So my solution is to forget about them. With 14 players all taking Guard on first doubles, I am not worried about lack of it.

I would welcome comments and questions. Particular points where I would welcome scrutiny are:

- Can Slann manage with 4RR, or are they always better off with 5 (especially bearing in mind TV is not a big problem in my "system").

- Which is better at the start: 4RR + Apoth, or 5RR and no Apoth (whichever I take always seems to go wrong!).

- Can the Catchers manage without any S-Hands as an early skill?

- Is one S-Ball player enough, or is there a case for two?

All the best.

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:33 am

I like the concept and think it should be effective.

Some thoughts:

- Sure Hands on one catcher is great. It helps on offence and especially on defence. I'd develop one of the catchers as Dodge, S-Hands, Block

- I'd take two Wrestle, Strip Ball linos. One is too easy to tie up. Strip Ball is a great skill for slann.

- I'd take at least one Block lino (probably the third to get a skill), especially if there are teams with Stunty players in the league. He'll be your blitzer. Also any lino who skills up doubles as first skill gets Block (edited from Guard which was pretty obvious).

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:42 am

I might well be stating the obvious, but if a linefrog doubles first skill, I'd suggest block second as opposed to wrestle.

Have you considered the options if a linefrog doubles after you've taken wrestle?

Sandwich · Post by **Sandwich** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:46 am

Having played a few games on FUMBBL, I'd say 5 rerolls to start and buy the apothecary first up - you will need those rerolls. (That said, my team had both starting catchers killed in game 1, so maybe the apothecary would've been useful after all!)

Also, if a catcher gets a double, you may want to consider hail mary pass - can leap in, grab ball, and bung it downfield out of reach of your opponent. Also ties in well with the diving catch they start with.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:39 am

Thanks, guys, most helpful comments.

A fellow coach in our league tried HMP on a Slann Catcher - it did not appear to work. I would certainly consider it as a second doubles skill, after Guard, but not before. Guard on an AG4 Frog is outstanding, as it adds a potential assist against a caged ball.

I agree in 95% of cases that Guard on a Lino should be followed by Block, rather than Wrestle. However, for Linefrogs I am unsure. What matters for the Slann is having lots of players in their backfield on defense with the ability to hunt the ball - for which Wrestle is obviously preferable to Block. With just 4 Linefrogs in this role (3 are on the LoS - and I assume 4 Catchers are fielded on defense), you need as much ST3 Wrestle as you can get, especially against a slayer team, who will hunt down the Wrestlers one by one. Also, Slann do not like to stay in contact if they can avoid it, thus limiting the use of Guard in the opponent's turn. So I am tending towards the unorthodox Wrestle+Guard. Perhaps I should find a way to playtest a little before I take this plunge. This is still less radical than Galak's system, which has Wrestle on all Blitzers, Catchers and Linefrogs (if I understood his podcast on 3DB).

All the best.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:15 am

I've been tempted by the idea of starting without Blitzers and then hiring them as replacements when your team starts developing and I can avoid the TV hit.

Glowworm · Post by **Glowworm** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:45 am

I started my league team with a Blitzer and a Krox (should have read this 1st ) and wish now I hadnt bothered with the blitzer. He's been no better than a Lino TBH, however he's just skilled up and got +1 St, so Im considering cutting the Krox (who has guard) and seeing how that goes. Its quite a bashy league with Dwarves / CD's /Chaos & Orges as well as a well developed Skaven team so Im not expecting great things 1st season. The one good thing is we have a targeted MVP system (you choose 6 of your players who are eligable, opponent rolls D6) so I can be selective to a point.

The Krox was hired as "protection" (read line fodder) until I got the team established and he's done that quite well but even very early Im noticing some Tv bloat so i think its probably time to let him go, i may keep him until after my next match (Chaos)

If your using league costings for RR (double price) then id start with 5 and hope the dice are kind 1st game for the apoth, took me 3 games to win enough to buy my apoth (2 loses 1 draw!!)

good luck with the team, Im starting to enjoy them more now, when I started playing them I didnt concentrate on thier strengths only thier weakness (no block, no dodge moan, moan...) and please keep the updates coming.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:33 pm

Thanks, glowworm, good insights. When I started playing with Slann, I too was quite frustrated, I felt I kept getting the starting roster wrong, and I found I was putting a lot of effort into buying and developing the Blitzers. The Catchers and Blitzers hogged all the SPPs, then the Blitzers tended to get crippled instead of going on. They seem to be one of the player-types in BB who are always in skill deficit.

Another problem I experienced when I took Blitzers was that I ran out of players to Blitz with! The Linos are ideal for this task, but if you start with (say) 2 Blitzers and 4 Catchers on defense, that only leaves 2 Linos in the backfield (the other 3 being on the LoS). So I ended up taking marginal odds blitzes with the Blitzers, not a great thing to do with such expensive players (whereas a rookie Lino or one with one skill is ideal for such a task).

I like Kroxes, but the Krox does not appear to suit this team (as I play it). Just as an Italian sports car has 2 gears (flat out and parked), the Slann have 2 modes of play: sack the cage or disengage everybody. Kroxes (or Blitzers for that matter) are not needed for either mode - they suggest a 3rd mode of play which may be interesting, but which I find is not relevant.

Lean TV is great for the Slann - a free Babe or Apoth can make quite a difference. Whereas if you take Blitzers and Krox, your TV is way up there with DEs and WEs (or even higher, considering the number of RRs that Slann require). So you will be on the receiving end of inducements, not good for such a squishy team.

It seems to me that the Linefrogs are the secret stars of the team; I suggest it pays to develop a play style and strategy which treats them as such.

All the best.

dr. evil · Post by **dr. evil** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:26 am

I've put in 20 games with my slann team (also called Pond Scum). I like the blitzers as marksmen when playing against agility teams. The team has problems vs. teams that play like them (scoring fast). This is where the blitzers and krox come in. They are the only player on the team that will slow down the elf/skaven teams you will face.

I aslo only run with 3 catchers on defence. I replace one catcher with a lineman w/kick. This will pull your opponent up close to the LOS for easy access to his cage or prevent him form running to out of range.

I run with
3 blitzers- 1 killer and 2 blodge SS
krox- stand firm guard
4 catchers- 3 blodge SS, 1 KOR SH
6 lineman- 1 kick wrestle, 3 wrestle tackle, 2 wrestle SB

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:46 am

Smeborg wrote: This is still less radical than Galak's system, which has Wrestle on all Blitzers, Catchers and Linefrogs (if I understood his podcast on 3DB).

All the best.

I don't use the Krox so that we match. However point of correction ... I did not believe in putting Wrestle on Catchers at all ... 3 Linefrogs and the Blitzers only. I always like Sure Hands, Dodge and Kick-off Return (2 only) for the Catchers on normal rolls. With all Linefrogs and Catchers .... I'd definitely take Kick-off Return on 2 Catchers to get the auto Kick-off catch roll on the back 9 rows.

Tom

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:46 am

Thanks, dr.evil, I have thought about running with 3 Catchers on defense - in practice one is often in the dugout anyway.

How many RRs do you use? If you use 4 or 5, I calculate that your underlying TV would be 140 or 145. That would be very difficult in the environments I play in. For example, Undead with 14 players and 3 RR have an underlying TV of 115. So that would mean conceding 250,000 or 300,000 of inducements, enough for (say) a Wizard and a Bribe (or similar nasties).

All the best.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:53 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:
Smeborg wrote: This is still less radical than Galak's system, which has Wrestle on all Blitzers, Catchers and Linefrogs (if I understood his podcast on 3DB).

All the best.
I don't use the Krox so that we match. However point of correction ... I did not believe in putting Wrestle on Catchers at all ... 3 Linefrogs and the Blitzers only. I always like Sure Hands, Dodge and Kick-off Return (2 only) for the Catchers on normal rolls.

Thanks, Galak. I understand the excellence of KoR on the Catchers, but at the same time, I wonder if the team really needs it (compared to building the Catchers more for defense). It's not like they will struggle to pick the ball up on the first turn of offense. What then is your thinking behind KoR? And when do you give the Catchers Block - I accept it is not a good active skill for them, but without it they seem to fly into the dugout?

All the best.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:29 pm

My reasoning for KoR is that while they may not have problems with ball retrieval ... I find folks seriously underestimate the ability to start every Kick-Off with the ball in hand OR with the ball right next to your player.

Slann is a fast team and I find not spending a turn arranging for ball pick-up gives them an extra edge.

Tom

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:22 pm

Thanks, Tom.

By the way, I also give Wrestle to the Blitzers (when I play with them). So we agree on that, too.

dr. evil · Post by **dr. evil** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:50 am

Smeborg wrote:Thanks, dr.evil, I have thought about running with 3 Catchers on defense - in practice one is often in the dugout anyway.

How many RRs do you use? If you use 4 or 5, I calculate that your underlying TV would be 140 or 145. That would be very difficult in the environments I play in. For example, Undead with 14 players and 3 RR have an underlying TV of 115. So that would mean conceding 250,000 or 300,000 of inducements, enough for (say) a Wizard and a Bribe (or similar nasties).

All the best.

I run with 4 RR on the team. The team burns through RR quite quickly so I would look to cut elsewhere. In my home league High TV is not a problem (we have a couple of teams at close to 100 games). You can easily drop a blitzer or krox to keep TV down. If you drop the blitzer I'd build 2 marksman and forget about the killer as this team is more about scoring than killing.

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