BB Mag #6

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 3:17 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:

0-12  Ogre Blocker   4  5  2  9  Really Stupid, Mighty Blow, TSkull, Big Guy
            100k   G/S
0-4   Ogre Blitzer   5  5  2  9  Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
            120k   G/S
0-4   Goblin Catcher 6  2  3  7  Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff        
             40k   A
70k Rerolls

Thoughts?

Looks pretty good to me. This team is going to be difficult to play well, as it should be but still has enough to scare regular teams.

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 3:59 pm

I like the look of this team better myself. But IMHO I'd still like to see seperate throwers. I believe it adds a bit more character to the team but to accomplish this I'd take TTM away from all other players and do the team as follows:

0-12 Ogre Blocker 4 5 2 9 RS, MB, BG, 100K G/S
0-4 Ogre Blitzer 5 5 2 9 BH, MB, Tskull 120K G/S
0-2 Ogre Thrower 4 4 3 9 BH, TTM, SH 120K G/A
0-4 Goblin Catcher 5 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff 40k
70k Rerolls

I just believe it gives a bit more character and speciality. What do you think? I know I'm going over the same thing again but personally I believe we should have a thrower, even just one.

BigD

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:03 pm

Milo's Ogre Team List

Qty.....Position...........MA...ST...AG...AV...Skills........................Cost....Access
0-4.....Ogre Blitzer.......5.....5.....2.....9....MB, TS, TTM, BH.......120k....G, S
0-12...Ogre Blocker......4.....5.....1.....9....RS, TS........................90k....S
0-4.....Goblin................6.....2.....3.....7....Dodge, Stunty, RS.....40k....A

Re-rolls: 80k
Apothecary: 50k

Basically, I like this Cockerel. But, as mentioned before, the good Ogres shouldn't be privileged in comparison with their LRB-fellows. Only elite Ogres from those Ogre-Teams would be hired by ordinary teams. So the Blitzers should be as good as LRB-Ogres (and therefore identical), but they must not, under no circumstances, be better. And since these Blitzers are very, very rare, perhaps there should only be 2 of them available,. What about Gobbos? These are probably not that hard to find.

Blockers should go with RS, MA-1, AG-1 and be restricted to ST-skills (the ordinary Ogre would certainly not get himself distracted by intellectual trivialities if he can indulge in wreaking havoc, as long as his brain is online that means, of course), but MB is imperative (come on, we're talking Ogres here, aren't we?), people like 'em cause they are mean! The 7th-skill thing really is a minor issue IMHO. All Ogres love chucking stuff around too, of course, including Goblins, so they all have to have TTM.

2p-proposal of mine:

Ogre Team List

Qty....Position............MA..ST..AG..AV..Skills......................................Cost....Access
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0-2....Ogre Blitzers......5.....5....2....9...MB, TS, BG, TTM, BH,.............120k....G, S
0-16..Ogre Blockers.....4.....5....1....9...MB, TS, BG, TTM, BH, RS/BL...100k....S
0-6....Goblins...............6.....2....3....7...Dodge, Stunty, RS...................40k....A

Re-rolls: 60k
Apothecary: 50k

Blitzer now consistent with LRB-stats, no new rules required, just an additional position. I'm not entirely certain about Gobbo/Blitzer-numbers and Blocker-value, as far as balance is concerned, but with the available Star Players (Morg!) 4 Blitzers would seem a little bit over the top.

I don't feel too comfortable with Really Stupid. And since an ordinary Ogre would probably not run away, if there is the slightest possibility to deliver some decent beatings, I'd replace RS with a skill like "Battlelust" or "Want Some?" which would somehow represent the fact that they have kept the true spirit with regard to what this game is all about.
Battlelust: Standing Battlelusters in an opponent's tackle zone can only choose block, blitz or foul actions, if blitzing they must throw a block before moving on. They just fancy stomping, bashing and thrashing too much to leave out any given opportunity to do what they like most. Should such skill be too inconvenient, just go with RS though.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:03 pm

I'm 100% behind Galak's proposed roster. If the community is in agreement that this is the alternative we'd like to pursue, I'd love to give this team a trial run in the ECBBL. I was going to run BBMag #6 ogres but I know, from using Ogre teams in the past, that I'd have trouble losing games.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:09 pm

I'm 100% behind Galak's proposed roster.

I'd almost agree. The only thing I don't like is the fact, that these Ogres are significantly better than Ogres in the other teams (and they may pick 4 of them?). I'd say that Big Guy would be appropriate for these too.

I like the look of this team better myself. But IMHO I'd still like to see seperate throwers. I believe it adds a bit more character to the team but to accomplish this I'd take TTM away from all other players and do the team as follows:

0-12 Ogre Blocker 4 5 2 9 RS, MB, BG, 100K G/S
0-4 Ogre Blitzer 5 5 2 9 BH, MB, Tskull 120K G/S
0-2 Ogre Thrower 4 4 3 9 BH, TTM, SH 120K G/A
0-4 Goblin Catcher 5 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff 40k
70k Rerolls

I just believe it gives a bit more character and speciality. What do you think? I know I'm going over the same thing again but personally I believe we should have a thrower, even just one.

BigD

That would be Wood Ogres.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:21 pm

Marcus wrote:I'm 100% behind Galak's proposed roster.

Got Ian and Marcus ... if Pariah and Milo agree then I'll post it on the MBBL site for available teams before the ink dries on the TBB post.

Galak

Mirascael .... the only advantage the 4 Ogres have is that they can use Team Rerolls ... Andy Hall's original team had 8!!! of these guys on the roster. I think 4 is just fine; remember its an art of compromise here ... ie take Andy's team and modify without scrapping so that at the end of the day, the final result gets air time with the greater BBRC body. It helps that Milo is assisting with these talks, but you'll want to leave the 4 Ogres on the team with reroll access if you want it to get air time.

The changes I made to the Blocker was to get them more Ogre like and less Troll-like and to bring back in the Ogre elements .. MB and General access, while keeping one of the things that I liked about Pariah's TBB team that the Ogres still had Big Guy which is very much right out of the fluff. Makes the Blitzers more star like in quality which is fine by me.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:32 pm

Another good thing is that, given the mix and match aspect of the ogre models, it should be easy to discriminate between Blitzers and Blockers.

We've had at least 2 ECBBL players (myself included) keen on trying out an ogre team, we'll add in our data. Wont' be as extensive

but we've got some good coaches who'll give the teams a workout.

Ian: I'll bring this up with the boys at the game tonight and we'll take further discussion to the forum. I reckon a couple of Ogre teams in the Conference would be a laff.

Chaos Dwarf · Post by **Chaos Dwarf** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 4:55 pm

0-12 Ogre Blocker 4 5 2 9 Really Stupid, Mighty Blow, TSkull, Big Guy
100k G/S
0-4 Ogre Blitzer 5 5 2 9 Bonehead, Mighty Blow, TSkull, TTM
120k G/S
0-4 Goblin Catcher 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff
40k A
70k Rerolls

My two cents says I think this roster seems like a fair compromise. If anyone in our league wants to try it out I'll let you know how it goes.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:01 pm

Mirascael .... the only advantage the 4 Ogres have is that they can use Team Rerolls ... Andy Hall's original team had 8!!!

Well, "only"? But perhaps you're right, though.
Actually, I wonder why Hall didn't make the following Team List:
0-16 Ogres (standard, without Big Guy)
0-16 Goblins
We all agree that Hall's Team List can't be taken seriously, don't we?

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:49 pm

Worth mentioning that starting rosters for this roster suck mightily. As it should be.

Consider:

7xBlockers
4xGoblins
1xRR
7xFF.

Impossible to start with more than one reroll and you'll never afford Blitzers if you don't get 7 FF to start with. At least most of your team won't be using rerolls....

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 5:59 pm

Marcus wrote:Worth mentioning that starting rosters for this roster suck mightily. As it should be.

Consider:

7xBlockers
4xGoblins
1xRR
7xFF.

Impossible to start with more than one reroll and you'll never afford Blitzers if you don't get 7 FF to start with. At least most of your team won't be using rerolls....

Had this in the back of my mind when I was messing with the roster ... if you were willing to sack the reroll you could get the following, but the lack of the reroll is going to really hurt even with the 3 better Ogres.

3x Blitzer
4x Blocker
4x Goblin
8x FF

Compare this to my starting roster with Andy Hall's team:
8x Goblin
3x Blitzer
9 FF
3 Rerolls
20k bank

Night and day ... HUH?

The other thing is that long term ... the max TR for the base team is scary w/o Goblins its 168 ... with Goblins its 144. Compare that to my Halfling team at 66, a Human team at 115, or Wood Elves at 138. As long as the Blocker has Big Guy though I think the team has hope for being a valued part of the BB mix.

Galak

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:48 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:It helps that Milo is assisting with these talks, but you'll want to leave the 4 Ogres on the team with reroll access if you want it to get air time.

I don't know about that. Jervis likes his big guys pathetic, and the BBRC likes consistency in the rules. A team where all the ogres had the "big guy" skill, and general access (so that you don't have to write an additional rule for what happens if you get to 7 skills) would probably fly better by Jervis, the BBRC and me!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:53 pm

Zombie wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:It helps that Milo is assisting with these talks, but you'll want to leave the 4 Ogres on the team with reroll access if you want it to get air time.
I don't know about that. Jervis likes his big guys pathetic, and the BBRC likes consistency in the rules. A team where all the ogres had the "big guy" skill, ... would probably fly better by Jervis, the BBRC and me!

Remember that's Jervis and Andy's team in BB Mag #6 .... so don't count on it, Zombie.

Galak

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:58 pm

My guess is that they've just lost touch with reality and don't know what's strong and what's not. Deep inside, i'm sure they (well at least Jervis anyway) wanted them pathetic.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:34 pm

I haven't read all the replies, but I have to ask:
Doesn't this team make the gobbo team utterly redundant?

14 gobbos and 2 ogres
or
8 gobbos and 8 ogres

Ooooh, thats hard