JJ's formula

[graeme27uk]

I know there is JJ's formula for working out the rough cost of a player, but this does not seem to apply with any of the star players. Their cost seems rather arbitary.

Is there some formula that is used or is it purely down to some other randomness?

[mathias]

Erm, might be a daft question, but what's JJ's formula?

[graeme27uk]

Well there used to be a formula that you could use to roughly calculate the cost of a player.

http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/bloodb ... rcost.html

[garion]

It still works, you just take the players basic position, so for Griff he is a human blitzer, then add the cost of the stat increases and skills he has gained and add and additional 10% - 30% price on top and you have got your star player.

Check this - https://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modlo ... =26&page=8

Edit:

Oh and here are the roster creation guides -

Creating your own team for Blood Bowl
General Team Rules:
1) No team can have AG 4 and ST 4+ players (unless the ST 4+ players are a Big Guy or Vampire)
2) Total Strength of the 16 highest ST players should not exceed 54
3) Take all players over 100k in price that are not Big Guy stock. Subtract 100k from each of their price and multiple
this amount * the maximum number allowed. Total this amount for the team. This amount cannot exceed
60k. (Example the Chaos Dwarf team has 2 non Big Guy players over 100k. The Bull Centaurs are 130k.
Subtract 100k from each and multiple by the 2 they are allowed and you get 60k so that team is okay.
4) No team should have more than 2 0-16 slots or more than 6 different positions (including the lineman slot)
allowed on the team. (Example the Orc team has 6 different positions).
5) Slots not set at 0-16 are limited to 0-6 maximum allowed.
6) A team cannot have Agile player types and Blocker player types on the same roster.
7) Team Re-roll prices should not be set at less than 50k.
No player's ST + AG should be more than 7.

General Rules for creating players:

1) If the player's initial calculated price is over 100k. Divide the amount of the player's price over 100k by 2 to
determine the player's final calculated price. So a player worth 140k when calculated would have a final
calculated price of 120k. (note if after this is done the player in to an even 10k increment then you need to
apply rule 2 below before you have the true final calculated price).

2) If a player's calculated price is not a round 10k price. Round down 5k amounts over 100k and round up 5k
amounts if under 100k. So a player worth 35k when calculated would have a final price of 40k while a player
whose price was 135k after applying the divide by 2 rule above would have a final calculated price of 130k.

3) Any player's final calculated price may be modified by 10k more or less from the calculated
price to achieve overall team balance. This is pretty important to balancing a roster in the long run.

4) If a player's price is adjusted down from the final calculated price then this amount should be multiplied by the
number of players in that slot. No team should be allowed to have this total amount for all players exceed 40k
total for the team. Players made more expensive than their calculated price should not be factored in.
(Example if the 0-16 slot for a team calculated to 60k and the price was adjusted to 50k then this would be
16*10=160k of discount and would be disallowed.) (Remember that all discounted players needed added.
So if the team has two 0-4 slot players and each player is discounted 10k then this would be 80k of team
discount and the team should not be allowed to be created.)

5) No weapon players should be allowed to be created and placed on teams (other than Stab). So no Secret
Weapon, Bombardier, Chainsaw, Ball & Chain players created new for rosters.

PLAYER TYPES:

1) BASIC PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/3/3/8 No Skills -- 50,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 30k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really
Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
30k: Regeneration
20k: Having Block and Dodge on the same player (this is on top of the 40k the player paid for Block and
Dodge already)
10k: Horns, Pass, and Thick Skull
5k: Leap and Very Long Legs
-5k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 4: -20k
MA 5: -10k
MA 7: +20k
MA 8: +30k
ST 2: -30k
AG 2: -20k
AV 7: -10k (if the player has NO other skills or stat increases)
AV 7: -20k
AV 9: +10k

2) AGILE PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/3/4/8 No Skills -- 70,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 60k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really
Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
30k: Regeneration
20k: Having Block and Dodge on the same player (this is on top of the 40k the player paid for Block and
Dodge already)
10k: Horns, Safe Throw, Thick Skull, and Very Long Legs
-10k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 7: +10k
MA 8: +20k
MA 9: +40k
ST 2: -30k
AV 7: -10k (if the player has NO other skills or stat increases)
AV 7: -20k
AV 9: +20k

3) STUNTY PLAYER
This player type starts as:
6/2/3/7 Dodge, Stunty -- 30,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-16 slots or 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 20k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
40k: Block
30k: Regeneration
10k: Right Stuff
0k: Titchy
-10k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 5: -5k
MA 7: +15k
MA 8: +30k
ST 1: -15k
AV 5: -20k
AV 6: -5k

4) BLOCKER PLAYER
This player type starts as:
4/4/2/9 -- 80,000 gold
This type is allowed for 0-6, 0-4, 0-2 slots
No player of this type should be priced for less than 80k
Skills disallowed to this player type:
Block, Claw, Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy, Always Hungry, Throw Team-Mate, Loner, Bone-head, Wild
Animal, Really Stupid, Take Root
All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
10k: Thick Skull, Disturbing Presense
-5k: Decay
The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 3: -20k
MA 5: +10k
MA 6: +30k
ST 5: +40k
AG 1: -20k
AG 3: +20k
AV 7: -30k
AV 8: -20k
AV 10: +30k

5) BIG GUY PLAYER
This player type starts as:
5/5/2/9 (Loner), (Negatrait), (Damage Skill) -- 160,000 gold
A team should only be allowed to have one Big Guy type on it

Allowed:
If the team has any ST 3+ players (other than the Big Guy) then 0-1 allowed
If the team's strongest other players are ST 2 then 0-2 or 0-1 allowed
If the team's strongest other players are ST 1 then 0-6, 0-4, 0-2, or 0-1 allowed
No player of this type should be priced for less than 110k

Skills disallowed to this player type:
Block, Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty, Titchy
Loner: If the team has no other players with ST over 2 than the Big Guy should be allowed to have Loner
removed (if desired) for no increase to his price.
Negatraits (a Big Guy must have one of these):
Bone-head and Wild Animal do not change the price
Really Stupid subtracts 20k from the price
Take Root subtracts 30k from the price
Damage Skill (a Big Guy must have one of these 2 skills):
Mighty Blow does not change the price
Claw adds 10k to the price

All skills add 20k to the player's price other than the following:
10k: Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate
-10k: Always Hungry skill (Note: a Big Guy MUST have Throw Team-Mate to take Always Hungry)
-10k: Decay

The following stat changes are allowed to this player type:
MA 2: -90k
MA 3: -50k
MA 4: -20k
MA 6: +30k
ST 6: +50k
AG 1: -20k
AV 8: -10k
AV 10: +20k

6) SPECIAL PLAYER (and other notes)
Vampire 110k 6/4/4/8 Blood Lust, Hypnotic Gaze, Regeneration
0-6, 0-4, 0-2, or 0-1 allowed
No modification or extra skills allowed to this player type

Other Notes:
1) The above will allow you to create almost all of the official Blood Bowl teams along with
balancing of teams folks want to create to try something new.
2) Please note … the above rules will NOT allow you to create 4 of the official teams … namely the Dwarf, Goblin, Chaos Pact
and Lizardman teams. The Goblin and Dwarf teams because they have weapons on
the roster, Chaos Pact because they have too many slots (7) and the Lizardman team because it has 70k of
team discount (10k discount each on the 0-6 Saurus and the 0-1 Kroxigor).
3) If you want to allow teams to add in Vampires (which would be fun) a very easy way to program in the Blood
Lust skill would be to allow them to attack any member of their own team that does not have Regeneration (a
very easy modification that will have the skill work perfectly and allow the Vampire player to be added into
other teams).
4) Note on prices for the Big Guys. The starting price still gets divided by 2 for the amount over 100k when
you do the first price calculation.
Example: So a base Big Guy with MA 6 and Loner, Bone-head, and Mighty Blow would be 160k+30k=190k.
Divide the 90k by 2 = 45k. 190k-45k = 145k. Round down and the final calculated price of the Big Guy would
be 140k.
5) If you to try and have the most balanced teams possible. I strongly recommend not making changes to any
stats (Move, Strength, Agility, Armour) other than the ones I listed for each player type

[Darkson]

I'm not sure that's correct - I seem to recall the stars being based of the base cost of a Saurus (for Stunty/normal players) and an Ogre(?) for BG stars as well as normal players.

Of course, I might be mis-remembering - it's been a while!
I'd find the post on the GW forum where all the points were worked out, but of course, they never archived it.

[GalakStarscraper]

I'm not sure that's correct - I seem to recall them being based of the base cost of a Saurus (for Stunty/normal players) and an Ogre(?) for BG stars.

I'd find the post on the GW forum where all the points were worked out, but of course, they never archived it.

The post that Garion posted is the revised method that was developed for CRP for creating a new "balanced" team.

The Star Players were based on the base player and the skills were costs as normal. Any stat increase was priced 10k extra for each stat increase. Stat Decreases were allowed. (A BOB was used for Zug). Minor adjustments were made after playtesting those prices.

The Big Guys were based by adding skills and stats to a Saurus. Negatraits reduce the price by a %. Like Bonehead reduce the price of the overall player by 16.7% (ie Brick and Bertha).

Tom

[Smurf]

Awesome... thanks I wondered.

[garion]

The Star Players were based on the base player and the skills were costs as normal. Any stat increase was priced 10k extra for each stat increase. Stat Decreases were allowed. (A BOB was used for Zug). Minor adjustments were made after playtesting those prices.

I'm a bit consued by Zug. Obviosuly he was based on a Black Orc as you say or 2nd ed human blockers (same stat line), but that makes him even more expensive - 53% more than he should be.

Mighty Zug: 260k (+53%)
Human Blocker +STR, Block, Mighty Blow
80 +50 +20 +20 = 170k

It still seems to make more sense using a human lineman?

Mighty Zug: 260k (+13%)
Human Lineman +STR, +STR, +AV, Block, Mighty Blow, -MA**, -MA**, -AGI**
50 +50 +50 +30 +20 +30 = 230k
INJURY: -MA -MA -AGI

Were there other factors taken in to consideration, like play testing adjustments etc...

[GalakStarscraper]

Were there other factors taken in to consideration, like play testing adjustments etc...

I won't correct it by line but you forgot the extra +10k to the prices for each stat increase when you did the math. We did that with all the stars when we started.

Zug got a major price increase based on playtesting. He started at 180k as per the formula you listed above (but with the +10k you forgot) and over the course of playtesting ... another 80k was added to his price.

Tom