Chaos Dwarf Tactics

[Carnis]

The late-league mino is utter rubbish though, best not hire one at all. One cant get all one wants in the TV1000 team anyway (2 bc, 6 CD, 3 RR, 1 ballcarrier).

[Smeborg]

Hi Carnis - how many games is "late league" for you? Won't a Mino be quite likely to have doubles and/or stat increases after a few dozen games?

All the best.

[dines]

The late-league mino is utter rubbish though, best not hire one at all. One cant get all one wants in the TV1000 team anyway (2 bc, 6 CD, 3 RR, 1 ballcarrier).

You need 10k more to buy that...

[Hitonagashi]

I find that having a Minotard evens things up a bit against the many ST-based teams, and brings welcome ST parity (or better) against others. Starting Frenzy is good for keeping defenses honest. And having a Mino seems to help free up the Bulls to use their excellent mobility (B-Tackle + 9 squares). If the Mino too is given B-Tackle as a middle skill, it creates a triple threat for the opponent to deal with. J-Naut, S-Firm, B-Tackle seems about right.

Hmm, I love playing against minos above 1500 TV. The st based teams have the power to put him on his back with a blitz and watch him roll around uselessly for a couple of turns(or just get KOed), and without G access you really don't want to be blitzing a blodging elf with him (as you'll have to use that blitz every turn doing it).

Even if he's got skills...almost every team relies on positioning. The mino is *very* difficult to position. Worst case, you -2d block him away at the end of the turn into an area of open space and let him roar at the sky.

I'd still take one if it was an open league, because Minos are fun. I think tactically, they are a terrible option though at higher TV's.

[Smeborg]

The mino is *very* difficult to position. Worst case, you -2d block him away at the end of the turn into an area of open space and let him roar at the sky.

Agreed. That's why I consider Stand Firm an important early skill on him (2nd). A Skaven coach in our league complains in the same way about Rat Ogres (good at the beginning, bad later).

[Hitonagashi]

Hmm, I guess.

My problem mostly revolves around the cost to benefit ratio. I have no problem agreeing the mino can be effective. My problem is that for 210k (mino with 3 skills), he'd better be very effective!

For marking and territory denial, a CDB with guard/standfirm costs 110k, and I'd say does 99% of what is required.

For blocking, it's just too unreliable! (WA + no G access + loner + frenzy).

I guess for me, having 1 double and 6 normal rolls on chaos dwarves/bull seems a lot better than a rookie mino. I admit, I do play in a TV matched environment...but inducements are powerful in leagues anyway!

[Smeborg]

Hitonogashi - I think a lot depends on your environment. If you feel the Minotard doesn't work well in yours, then trust your own judgment. My own feeling is that when playing against ST teams, the CDs can seem rather under-powered without the Minotard. I favour Jugs as first normal skill in order to make his blitzes reliable (and to help with surfing, of course). S-Firm as second skill so that he gets stranded less often.

All the best.

[dines]

I've not tried playing with the mino, but having induced Grashnak several times, thereby making easier 3D blocks and avoiding WA compared to the normal mino, the experience was still quite underwhelming and really unreliable compared to Hthark. I'd much rather have the inducements than a mino.

Thats TT league play against pretty developed teams, so it might be different against other rookie teams without block though.

For me the only real thing the mino has is the fun factor if your into that...

[Demagoge]

Hi everyone,

I´m considering how to start my CD. And the main question for me is, how important is it to start with two Bull Centaurs? They seem to play a vital role for the team, but I´m not sure if I really need both to start.

I thought about this:
1 Bull Centauer
6 Chaos Dwarf Blockers
4 Hobgoblins
3 Re-Rolls
1 Apoth
30.000 banked

After three, perhaps if I´m lucky two games, I should be able to buy the second BC. Till that, my other BC should have at least block and I should be able to skill up oner or two of the CDB. I think the blockers skill up very slow, so I wanted to start with all of them.

What are your thoughts on this starting roster?

Michael

[El_Jairo]

Michael, I think you are right on the money: BC are vital to CD's.

I tried your line-up to start with from the same logic but I find one bull to be really annoying. He is easily out manoeuvred since he lacks some skills to start with. On top of that I had bad luck with winnings and had to wait a long time before the second bull arrived.
You can perfectly start the team with 2 bulls and 'only' five CDBs. You'll have to buy the apoth first but the fact of having two bulls allows me to start playing one as pressure on the ball and one deep as safety. My dwarves in the middle to keep blocking. Which works quit fine: your opponent has nowhere to go.

I also found that with starting one bull later, this one is underskilled and doesn't see much action, and thus less SPP. Only if the developed one is off the pitch he needs to stand up and do the blitzes and runs. This is just because the developed one is more reliable.

[dines]

I have only tried the two bull start, but I see dwarves as pretty good from the beginning, but bulls need two skills to be really useful.. Therefore starting with both bulls makes sense to me

[mattgslater]

On the contrary position, Bulls are easy to skill, and Dwarfs are not, so starting 6 Dwarfs and an Apoth is also nice. With 30k in the Bank, you can usually buy your #2 Bull after 2 wins or 3 losses. You'll get some cards in the meantime, if you're playing with them. If not it's not as good (Dwarfs + Babes = poor mix) unless it gets you an extra Apoth, so you can Apoth the first KO or Cas you suffer.

That said, having done both, I think both Bulls and 5 Dwarfs is the way to go.

[Demagoge]

Thanks for the answers. I think I´ll try the 2-bulls-roster first. Perhaps I´ll give the other opporunity a shot in a future season.

[Smeborg]

Demagoge - go ahead and trust your judgment. I don't think there is a definitive starting roster for the CDs. I have tried several quite different ones - all have worked.

[gollumullog]

I started my CD team: http://www.thunderbowl.ca/tbsn/index.ph ... obj_id=281
with:
2 BC (240)
4 CD (280)
5 hobs (200)
3 rerolls (210)
1 apo (50)
1 coach
1 cheerleader

Worked out great, was able to buy dwarf 5 after game 1, and #6 after game 2, thanks to 2 - 6's on winnings.

I bought both a coach and a cheerleader, because it increases the chance of not only gaining a reroll, but denying a reroll to the opponent, and I have not regretted the decision yet.

Debating the minotaur purchase for my next game against an almost mirror team, although I have a slight skill spread advantage, but he has 2 skills on both bulls (block/BT;blodge), not overly fond of the minotaur, but I'm going to try it for a few games at least and hope for block in time for the playoffs.