strip ball mechanic

[talonz]

I find it very odd that a ball carrier always has an iron grip on the ball when pushed about and yet automatically loses it against strip ball blockers, when this is simply not true in real life football (and yes I realize the irony of using rl arguments in regards to a fantasy football game, lets skip that argument please!).

So I would propose the following; any player can be stripped of the ball when he is pushed by any opponent, this only ocurrs if the blocker rolls a 6+ on a single d6 roll. If the blocker has the strip ball skill, add 2 to the roll (so that the ball will pop loose half of the time against strip ballers). A ball carrier with tentacles subtracts 1 from the dieroll on strip ball tests. This roll can be rerolled by the blocking player as normal.

Thoughts?

[Buggrit]

Thoughts?

Carry the ball with a Sure Hands Player...

[TalonBay]

The strip ball influence on a game is to force a team to think who carries the ball and spend a skill on those that do it a lot to protect it. You could almost argue it's not effective enough as it's nullified by Sure Hands.

[plasmoid]

Indeed.
It would be neat if a stripped ball bounced twice (optional on a knockdown).
That way the ball wouldn't always end up in a TZ, where it can be tricky to extract.

[Greyhound]

the only trouble is for the lizardmen (if you only look at Tier1 team) because sure hands isn't an option until you roll a double.

[TalonBay]

the only trouble is for the lizardmen (if you only look at Tier1 team) because sure hands isn't an option until you roll a double.

True enough, but they do get a whole bunch of highly mobile, hard hitting players and speedy stunties and probably the best big guy in the game. They need some problems

[Greyhound]

True enough, but they do get a whole bunch of highly mobile, hard hitting players and speedy stunties and probably the best big guy in the game. They need some problems

Agreed and I don't rate strip ball highly (I actually think it's crap) it's just against Wood elves that I have an issue, a strip ball wardancer always manage to roll his 3+ leap and POP. There is little I can do about it, but c'est la vie. I wasn't really defending the OP, I was just counter-arguing that it can easily be negated with a skill, that skill isn't on tap for everyone.

[talonz]

Some of you are still missing the point...

1)without skills, the ball is never stripped.
2)with strip ball, the ball is always stripped, unless;
3)with sure hands, the ball is never stripped.

With so many crashing bodies, flailing arms, and a ball not designed for easy carrying, 'never' should never be used, except perhaps with a skilled ball carrier versus a nonskilled blocker.

Sure hands should provide a -1 to the die roll to stripball just like tentacles, so that he will keep the ball against vanilla blockers but face a lesser chance of being stripped against stripballers (instead of flat out negating the skill).

[dode74]

This appears to be a fluff vs gameplay argument. Gameplay wins those every time.

What are the consequences of the ball being knocked free more often? Many more pickup rolls.
What is the consequence of many more pickup rolls? AG4 teams gain advantage, AG2 teams (Khemri, many dwarves, some Orcs) receive a nerf.
Do AG4 teams need a boost and AG2 teams need a nerf? No.
Should the mechanic be changed? No.

[talonz]

Interesting analysis dode, especially as I think ag4 teams do need a nerf. Im frustrated slightly that they get multiple chances to move the ball and yet bashers only get one blitz.

So would your opinion change (getting slightly off track here but....) if teams couldnt both handoff and pass in the same turn anymore? This is the biggest threat ag4 teams have, covering almost the entire pitch at times end to end in a single turn, aided by their high ag. A handoff is a pass frankly, and should be counted as such.

Another way to address ag4 ball carriers would be additional blitzs. The only way I could see this happening is to revise juggernaught to provide that though.

Or if pickups are the issue as you put forth, change the pickup rules. I find it stupid to begin with that I can chase the ball around for multiple turns, causing turnovers each time. Perhaps thats the issue...dont cause a turnover on a failed pickup! Silly rule anyways. Or ignore the first failed pickup for the turnover rule as a compromise.

Anyways, thinking outloud...

[PercyTheTroll]

How about this:

If the defender had dodge and the block result is Defender Stumbles then the ball is stripped. If the defender has dodge and sure hands then the ball is not stripped unless the attacker has strip ball.

[plasmoid]

Hi Talonz,
in a well played bash game the AG4 team has the ball for 2 turns, and the bashers has it for 15.
Doesn't give them many chances to "cover the whole pitch".

[dode74]

Anything which makes the ball fall more freely will help the AG4 and high MA teams. Skaven are the archetypal "punish the error" team, where any dropped ball is at risk to the Big Hand player taking it from under the opposition nose and handing off to another MA9 rat who takes the ball out of range.

[mattgslater]

I wanna go on record saying I don't think Strip Ball needs "fixing" in any way! It's a good skill that punishes certain teams for not investing in Sure Hands! It's not overpowered, it's not underpowered, it's just one of many avenues for a team's "toolbox" sacker skills.