Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Smeborg]

I agree on all those three. How about:

- Block is a great first skill for warriors. Skip doubles, +MA/AV or +AG, even for second skill.

Yes, that seems to be widely agreed. Thanks.

[DiddleySquat]

I agree with the above guidelines, but they are so obvious they add little valuable information.

I'm more interested in 'advanced' questions, like:

- how do you play again agile teams:
a) Try to keep them from scoring at all, or aiming for a classic 2-1 grind (as in, let them score in 2 turns and then use the rest of the drive to equalize)?
b) What to do when they score in turn 4 or 5? Try to score quickly or just keep the ball safe and play for the draw?

- offense: go to a flank quickly and try to use your Stand Firm pieces for a sideline cage, or cage in the middle and wait for the right opportunity to run through with your ball carrier?

[Smeborg]

- how do you play against agile teams:
a) Try to keep them from scoring at all, or aiming for a classic 2-1 grind (as in, let them score in 2 turns and then use the rest of the drive to equalize)?

I would try to stop them from scoring at all times. This opens up the possibility of 1-0 and 2-0 wins for you. I also believe you should not play for the classic 2-1 grind unless the ball is very safe for 7 turns (which it may not be against a well-coached agile team). Instead you should be prepared to score earlier than a grinding team would, and then trust to your defense for what is left of the half. This is a defining characteristic of the Nurgle offense.

b) What to do when they score in turn 4 or 5? Try to score quickly or just keep the ball safe and play for the draw?

I would always try to equalise. Scoring in 4 or 5 turns should not be unduly difficult for Nurgle. If things go badly, on turn 7 you can make a call whether the risk of getting turned over outweighs the risk of attempting to score (the odds should be transparent by that stage). Normally there will be little to lose by attempting to score. I will also try to score in 2 or 3 turns (this will normally involve handing-off or even passing).

- offense: go to a flank quickly and try to use your Stand Firm pieces for a sideline cage, or cage in the middle and wait for the right opportunity to run through with your ball carrier?

This is a very general question. The sideline is useful to Nurgle, as it is to any caging team, but you should avoid allowing your position to become cramped for space, or your next move becoming obvious. It's good to move the cage from side to side as it advances, thus stretching the defense and keeping your opponent honest. Control of space matters more than where the cage is situated (although in the final stages, it may be easier to score from the centre of your opponent's half than from the sideline). It should be rare that you have a turn on which you do not try to advance the cage, even if that advance is by just 1 square. My experience suggests that average cage movement against a good defense is 1-2 squares per turn. This is slow, and is why forming the cage upfield helps a lot (for example by using KoR), and why you should always try to keep the cage moving (otherwise you may not reach the end zone without a risky hand-off or pass). Conceptually it may help to think of Nurgle making a walking play, rather than a running play (unless they have less than 4 turns in which to score).

Hope that helps.

[Smurf]

Is there an answer yet... 76th page in and all, maybe the longest running post?

[DiddleySquat]

I would always try to equalise. Scoring in 4 or 5 turns should not be unduly difficult for Nurgle.

Right. I think I just need to learn to shift the risks I take to speed my attack up, from the start of my drive to the end of it, when the risk of suffering a defensive TD is smaller. I tend to rush my offense when I have less then 6 turns, focusing too much on preparing the midfield cage and too little on protecting my BC in my backfield.

I find Stymie Nurgle has to focus every offensive turn on advancing the cage and ball, and not get distracted by opportunities to gain a numeric advantage, either by fouling or blocking with the intent to CAS or by setting up a crowd surf. In my experience those actions don't give tactical advantage and slow you down too much.

[Smeborg]

I find Stymie Nurgle has to focus every offensive turn on advancing the cage and ball, and not get distracted by opportunities to gain a numeric advantage, either by fouling or blocking with the intent to CAS or by setting up a crowd surf. In my experience those actions don't give tactical advantage and slow you down too much.

Spot on, Diddley. Your perception is absolutely correct.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

In regards to the scoring questions a lot of it depends on how skilled the teams are.
At low TV I agree with Smeborg, Nurgle are so inept offensively you have to try to stop them scoring at all, however at decent TV 2-1 grind is fine.
At high TV depending on the structure of the league etc you should go for the 1-1 draw if Elves score in about 4-5 turns.
Trying to score vs developed elves in 3-4 turns is suicide for any bashy team.

[Smeborg]

Hi Jimmy. What level of TV do you define as "decent" and "high" in this regard?

All the best.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

High TV is maybe 1800 plus. Decent TV is maybe 1350 ish, where you have a somewhat developed ballcarrier (Blodge Surehands) and enough Block to not waste RR.

[DiddleySquat]

In regards to the scoring questions a lot of it depends on how skilled the teams are.
At low TV I agree with Smeborg, Nurgle are so inept offensively you have to try to stop them scoring at all, however at decent TV 2-1 grind is fine.
At high TV depending on the structure of the league etc you should go for the 1-1 draw if Elves score in about 4-5 turns.
Trying to score vs developed elves in 3-4 turns is suicide for any bashy team.

This is also my experience. My team is around 1650 TV now, the Elves in the league are around 1800 I think. Trying to score in 4 turns against them is inviting disaster. I hope Stymie Nurgle's odds are picking up again at 2000+ TV (which will take a loooong time to reach ).

[spubbbba]

I wonder if there are strategies on which all regular participants on this thread might agree for a Nurgle league team. For example:

- Best starting roster is Beast, 4 Warriors, 1 Pestigor, 5 Rotters, 2 Re-rolls.

- 1 Pestigor Runner is appropriate (not 2).

- 3 Re-rolls is appropriate (more is too many).

Please feel free to add.

All the best.

Depending on what you mean by runner I’d agree with the 1st 2 points but I think at high TV 3 re-rolls is a bit low. Even with skills you will get inevitable double skulls and 1’d or roll nothing but pushes when hitting a ball carrier.

Since some players are hard to re-skill up you are going to have to make blocks with skill less players or try to pick up/pass/catch the ball with basic AG3.
Plus at some stage you will get outbashed so need to take crazy risks to score/prevent a TD. The team won’t tend to have many skill re-rolls such as dodge or sure hands and the likes of pass and catch are a waste.

It also allows you to make “frivolous” re-rolls to take out opposing players when you roll pushes.

[Wanchor]

I can't see four or more re-rolls being anything but TV bloat. Two is manageable, but occasionally falls short. Having a fourth from a kickoff result or something is nice, but really, Nurgle doesn't roll that many dice.

[Smeborg]

I like to start my Pestigor Runner with Sure Hands, Kick-off Return. With KoR, he becomes quite good at helping you to score on a "short" drive (which for Nurgle is anything less than 8 turns... ). If you can get +1MA and/or Sure Feet on him, this also helps quite a bit. At 5 skills: S-Hands, KoR, X-Arms, +1MA, S-Feet is rather nice, I can assure you. Pestigor Runner development is variable - it depends on what stat increases and doubles you get, and when.

Once you have a Pestigor Blitzer with Wrestle and Tackle (I take Fend in between, so it takes 31 SPPs) you have quite good ability to punch holes in an Elven defense, and to get potential receivers through for times when you have to try and score in 2 or 3 turns. On the turn that you make the TD attempt, if you liberate or move the receiver first, while keeping the ball relatively safe (e.g. caged), then you lower the odds of a turnover score by the agile team. Having a re-roll in hand helps a lot of course. 2-Heads as a late skill on Pestigor Blitzers further improves their mobility as receivers (as well as helping with ball-hunting, of course).

Even when I have 8 turns to score, I often find myself scoring in 4 or 5 turns with Nurgle (then trusting to my defense). So when I am given "only" 4 or 5 turns to score, I have confidence that my chances of scoring are OK (of course that does not necessarily mean that I succeed).

My most intense learning period with Nurgle included recording for each drive (a) how many turns it lasted, (b) whether I was receiving or kicking, and (c) what was the result (TD for me, TD for oppo, no TD). I found the results quite revealing; the defense was considerably better than I thought, and the offense considerably worse. This info helped me to sharpen up my play - in particular, I stopped aiming for 7 and 8 turn grinding drives, unless the going was good. This led to a sharp improvement in results (I scored more reliably by holding the ball less, and the defense then did its job very well). The same info led me to giving higher priority to KoR on the Pestigor Runner. If you like the idea of stymie Nurgle, you have to wrap your mind around the idea that they spend most of the game on defense - a characteristic more typical of agility teams .

Hope that helps.

[Hitonagashi]

I like to start my Pestigor Runner with Sure Hands, Kick-off Return. With KoR, he becomes quite good at helping you to score on a "short" drive (which for Nurgle is anything less than 8 turns... ). If you can get +1MA and/or Sure Feet on him, this also helps quite a bit. At 5 skills: S-Hands, KoR, X-Arms, +1MA, S-Feet is rather nice, I can assure you. Pestigor Runner development is variable - it depends on what stat increases and doubles you get, and when.

How do you deal with Elves? With just Sure Hands, and no block or dodge, I'd quite happily -2d him (using leap, or just a 5+ rr'ed dodge, at 56% chance of success). You've got a 56% chance of putting him down with a rr if you got a flat -2d (admittedly unlikely!). A wardancer, or any ag 5 elf has a seriously good chance of popping the ball, and if elves free the ball on offense, bad things tend to happen! With just a normal blodging elf with a rr, he's got a 30% chance of putting you down by dodging in on a 5+ then -2ding the ball carrier in the middle. Doing it 2 turns in a row, 50% chance. If I get 3 chances to do a 5+ dodge, -2d, 75% chance of having popped it!

I'm a high risk loving elf player, but I'd be dodging into that cage every turn when you started getting nearer the TD line! I've only once played a nurgle team that could stop my elves scoring(in the 9 games against them with my primary elf team), and if it goes to 2-0 to the elves, Nurgle are in deep deep trouble.

I'm just interested here in how your games tend to go. I personally love playing against ball carriers without blodge, because it means that if AG 4 holds up, then a -2d is always on.

[Smeborg]

Hitonagashi - Block is of limited use in protecting the ball carrier against Elves. Once they have Wrestle on the Leapers or Dodgers, Block is of (almost) no use. Sure Hands at least protects against Strip Ball. I like to give the Pestigor Runner Block as a late skill, but this is mainly to make him more useful on defense and in the scramble (as well as to prolong his life). But I prioritise rapid and secure ball movement (S-Hands, KoR, X-Arms).

I have always found HEs and DEs to be relatively easy opponents for Nurgle (they handle the Nurgle defense badly), whereas PEs (NoS) and WEs (raw speed) are more tricky (but I would say about evens in a league setting).

Against any Elves, as with (say) Slann, you have to take precautions, which means mainly (a) tie up as many players as possible, and (b) use the sideline if you can, with the aim of (c) making life difficult for the Elves if (when) they do manage to pop the ball loose. Stymie Nurgle throw down more blocks than you might think against an AG team (because of F-App/Block/S-Firm). This leads to steady CAS/KOs/Stuns as the offensive drive progresses, making things easier. I will tend to aggressively foul the likes of Wardancers, Witch Elves, Gutter Runners when their attempts to sack the ball carrier fail. Careful positioning of the Beast (for example at or near the most important cage corner) can force the Elves to attack the cage from a predictable direction.

Please also bear in mind that your (correct) perceptions also argue in favour of Nurgle scoring relatively quickly on their offense. I find games against well coached AG teams to be rather sporting. Both coaches need "nerves of steel" combined with aggressive risk-taking when appropriate.

All the best.