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Smeborg wrote:Wanchor - Grab is excellent on the Beast, as it enables him to throw blocks while still tying up multiple players (he does not have to push one of them away).
Naturally. The reasoning behind considering Guard on him first is that I find it I need it most when I commit the beast in a cage and am giving up a number of blocks in order to throw a wrench in the works. Guard would make him harder to isolate in such situations and help fight Guard with Guard against bash teams, who are mostly the ones who caged up in the first place.
Grab, though, would make me confident in throwing more blocks with the Beast and might work towards getting more SPP through casualties, despite that the blocks are no safer themselves, but that the play would be safer upon realization of a push or better result. Would also work to feed blocks to the warriors and put tied up pieces in even worse spots, potentially forcing multiple dodges or tentacles rolls to escape.
Ultimately, I think Guard is more practical, but if I have a bunch of it already by the time the Beast gets his next skill, I might be able to afford to 'go fancy' and take Grab.
Guard is excellent on a Tentacled player, as it increases the difficulty of moving away from his Tentacles by blocking or blitzing. Guard on the Beast also helps on the offensive LoS - other players block opponents using his Guard, leaving the Beast free to blitz or move next to multiple opponents on turn 1.
Anyone has experience putting Break Tackle on a Nurgle Warrior? Probably not early in his development, but for instance as skill number 4 after Block, Stand Firm, Guard. Or you picked up Dodge somewhere first, say Block, Guard, Dodge.
I know getting a non-killer Warrior there takes ages and even then there's heavy skill competition, but I would think having one or two mobile cage escorts would be very useful, making it harder for your opponent to pin down your cage/screen.
I think that there's just too many good skills for Nurgle Warriors to even consider Break Tackle before the 6th skill.
Stymie has Block SF Guard Tents Tackle (Dodge)
Normal has Block Guard MB Claw Tents (Dodge)
Killer has Block Guard MB Claw PO (Jump Up)
On normal or killers you can also take Frenzy or Tackle.
Break Tackle is something Black Orcs used to take as a late skill if they hadn't rolled doubles.
Now everyone has more skills to choose from on normals and of course NW have mutations too.
Break Tackle is just not that useful on a MA4 ST4 guy, especially when there are so many great choices for them whatever your build.
Yeah guess break tackle is only really useful on some big guys, bull centaurs, sauri and possibly ulfwereners as a late skill. It can ofcourse also be interesting as a double on elves...
I think that break tackle sounds kind of good on a Nurgle Warrior if
a) You already rolled Str5 (it happens)
b) You already took tentacles
At that point it would be sort of like break tackle on the beast of nurgle, except a lot less bad
- When you roll a one, you can reroll it instead of failing due to loner and falling over
- As a non stupid player, you can afford to activate him every turn and move him around more without risking losing your tentacles.
- since he has so many non punching skills, he probably hits like a pillow anyway, he may be best off just holding important people people at times
At that point he'd also be a good candidate for dodge to protect him/provide synergy with BT.
I imagine on a turn when you can't blitz the ball carrier, sometimes you might be able to use your blitz to allow this guy to mark the ball carrier... or at least some slann catchers or something.
PorkSol wrote:...
I think that break tackle sounds kind of good on a Nurgle Warrior if
a) You already rolled Str5 (it happens)
b) You already took tentacles
...
PorkSol - you are right up to a point. Bear in mind, however, that the skill path of a ST5 Warrior will tend to diverge from that of a Beast, for the simple reason that the Warrior has access to general skills (the Beast does not). I would take Block before B-Tackle, for example.
Well after 3 very quiet days at work I finally managed to plough through this entire thread and was inspired to create my own Nurgle team.
I played LRB4 nurgle a fair bit over on FUMBBL and enjoyed them. I did well in open matches and won a very competitive league with them twice in a row. In that I departed from my usual style of play and thanks to some doubles made a real killer team with 5 claws (1 Warrior had RSC too), some MB and a couple of DP’s. I also had a great AG4, ST4 beastman who won me many a game until he was killed on a 1D.
I decided to create a Nurgle team for Cyanide’s naggaroth division as a don’t have meny tea, slots free (and want to save them for slaan, underworld and pact) plus it’s usually quicker to get games than .
To that end I went with a slightly different build of BoN, 3 Warriors, 1 Pest, 6 rotters and 3RR’s. The aim was to get Spp’s on the warriors quickly so I wanted the 3rd re-roll for blocks with them and maybe a TD or 2.
So far I’ve had 2 games, 1st was vs a nurgle team 190 above me that had full positionals bar 1 pest, 13 players and 2 RR’s, only skill was block on 1 pest. I took Igor and bases as inducements. Turn 1 my opponent BH’s my beast but it regens then he runs out of ideas just hits my warriors until his re-rolls run out and a both down leaves the ball open which I manage to steal and go 1-0 up at half time.
2nd half a bad kick allows me to give the ball to a rotter as the pest was in positional to set up a surf one of his but rolls a pow. Still I manage to tie up his 4 warriors and 1 beast with my beast and 3 warriors and start to cage down 1 flank. I just needed a push to make a hole in his defence to run the cage through when skulls/both down strikes to be re-rolled to double bown down. After this the ball changes hands a few times but eventually a lone rotter makes a run for it with the ball. He is brought down and the ball recovered but his last ditch pass attempts fail and I win 1-0. So that’s a whopping 8 spp’s for the game all on rotters and despite somehow getting +2 fame I only win 30K as I rolled double 1’s.
Game 2 was against a normal Chaos team that was 200 above me so this time I chose a RR and igor. He had 4 warriors, 7 beastmen and 3 re-rolls. There were quite a few skills this time, SH, claw and some block on the beastmen and grab and MB (maybe a guard too) on the warriors). I receive and my offence goes nowhere, we struggle to knock anyone down and can’t outmanoeuvre the faster beastmen. After a miscalculation with the BoN he gets a blitz on the ball carrier, pops it loose and runs off. Some desperate scrambling sees me get the ball back but I had no chance of scoring and narrowly avoided going down 1-0 at half time.
However my Ko’s come back whilst his don’t and in the 2nd half my armour rolls are hot and I quickly KO a couple of his players. His offence is going nowhere but I slightly over commit to the side (hoping he’ll leave me a surf) and he manages to break a hole after rolling plenty of pows (MNG’s a rotter) and dodges. I just need to make some pushes to free up players to stop him or maybe hit the ball carrier but both downs/skulls strikes again and he eventually manages a score. I’m left with 3 turns to equalise and still have a numbers advantage, I push up with a couple of players on the right but again get hit by both downs/skulls when trying to free up some rotters to go up the other side (I do get a cas on a warrior at least). He’s able to tie up all my warriors and my last turn long bomb attempt to score fails. This time I roll a 2 for winnings so after 2 hard fought games I have 15 Spp’s and 50K cash.
Both games were really frustrating as 200TV is a lot against a rookie team particularly as they were similar to mine only better. The 2 Igors I took were not used but I was worried about having a key player killed, maybe a merc warrior would have been better. In the 2nd game I was probably a little block happy with the Beast but was a little more concerned with trying to get some Spp’s on him than getting a draw.
As for development I aim to get a 4th warrior asap then 2 pestigors, then either a 4th re-roll or 4th pest. Hopefully I’ll run into some of those conceders that are so prevalent on Cyanide.
Skills wise I will aim for.
Beast – Guard, SF, Grab (Block).
Warriors – Block 1st skill (unless +ST), 1st 2 to get 2nd skill will get Guard and then I’m toying with MB or SF for the other 2. For 3rd skill it will be Claw if MB and tents (depends how many elves I face) or Guard if SF. I will likely ignore doubles (maybe dodge if 3rd skill) and non ST stats.
Pestigors – These guys are giving me the most trouble, 1st couple of guys to skill will get block then I’m unsure how to develop them, a SH guy is needed quickly and a wrestle, tackle Strip beast sounds nice too. I’m thinking 1 or 2 killers with Block, MB, Claw, PO to do hit and run attacks. All stats will be taken (MA over AV) and on doubles I’d favour dodge or possibly leader for some TV min/max lameness.
Rotters – wrestle or block, a couple with dp and maybe 1 with kick.
Key priority is the warriors getting block, if needed I will recycle rotters, pestigors and even the beast should the warriors be falling behind as it’s a TV matched environment.
Wow, just realised it’s a bit of a long post, but guess that’s appropriate for this thread. Free Nurgle internet cookie (with nurgle’s rot infested choccie chips) to anyone who reads the whole post.
The igor is a really bad inducement, I would only consider it once you have a clawpomber or a ballcarrier worth saving and then usually only at high TV.
Wizards are implemented on Cyanide so they are essential in all games that you can afford them!
What Jimmy said is correct. Only take Igor at high TV when they have killers and you have valuable assets to protect. My preferred inducements at low TV are RR (untli you have 3 total) and then bribes. Lord Borak if you have 300K to spend. Wizard against slow teams (other Nurgle, Khemri, Dwarves,etc.). Nurgle isn't strong at turning a loose ball into a TD, so I'd focus on just preventing a TD with the Wizard.
Well my purchasing the igor for both games was probably influenced by the previous one where my rookie undead got slaughtered by 1300 skaven. 6 cas against (-AG on 2 ghouls), -MA on a wight, MNG on a zombie and BH on a zombie and Nekbrekah left the team in a sorry state. I was probably over worried about losing a regen player, a wizard does sound more fun actually and certainly would have helped in my 2nd game to score or stop the TD.
Actually I’m a little confused about the differentiation between a stymie and killer team at low TV, as far as I can see both versions are pretty similar until you start getting 2nd or 3rd skills. If you have all 9 positionals, 4 rotters, 3 re-rolls, 10 normal skills and say FF5 then that’s 1520 TV alone. Both builds seem to take block 1st on the warriors and then wrestle or block is common on the pestigors (with one taking sure hands) and rotters so I don’t really see the difference.
Yes spubbba this was my point when Smeborg said that he expected to win 5 lose 1 with a stymie build and do worse with a killer build. There is hardly any difference at low TV, it will take a while to get block on all your NW, beast is more or less the same, surehands blodge ballcarrier is your first pesti.
The only difference is the 2nd and subsequent skill on NW and 3 of the pestigors.
Nurgle do have stupidly expensive positionals, I have tried a few builds to keep tv down in a matchmaking environment.
I think you can definitely get away without a beast ( I did for 85 games with my best team).
Also I only build 2 pestigor killers so 3 pestigors might be ok for a long while.
Also you may want to consider 2 rr + leader rather than 3 RR at low TV.
Once you get to 2k + TV you can have all positionals and 3 RR as the bloat is not so bad then.
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
spubbba - I find that a rookie team with a handicap of 150,000 to 200,000 will tend to be at a disadvantage. The only remedy is to choose inducements with care. I agree with what has been said already. The Wizard is outstanding value against pretty much any team. The only difference is that a Lightning Bolt will be used more often against AG teams, a Fireball more often against caging teams. I consider Igor to be one of the worst value inducements in the game, and have taken him very rarely. 2 Babes are outstanding value for Nurgle (as for any Regen team). The Nurgle Stars are generally weak, and you may find that Mercs with skills are better (they can be tailored to each match).
Although I understand your reasons for starting with 3 RR and therefore only 3 Warriors, I repeat my advice that starting with all 5 lumps (Beast + 4 Warriors) works best in practice. I did not discover this until I had the courage to start with 2 RR.
To clear up the difference between starting stymie and starting killer: there is of course no difference in the teams at the start (provided the roster is the same). However, 3 differences can emerge quite fast:
(a) M-Blow is the first choice on the Warriors for many killer teams that I have seen (not Jimmy's, I know). I consider this a weak choice compared to the standard stymie Block, especially in the short term.
(b) Wrestle is the first choice on 3 Pestigors in the stymie build. This is IMO better than Block (mainly for ball-hunting), and likely to contribute to improved results immediately.
(c) Last but not least, the style of play of the teams is different (one has a focus more on player numbers, one more on the ball). At any coaching standard below perfection, I suspect this difference could be evident from the first game.
