Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Carnis]

Not in that order, surely.

I've been pondering Thick Skull myself lately, particularly for the fifth skill of my killer Pestigor in the interest of protecting him, but I can't decide between it and Foul Appearance. +AV or +ST would obviously be welcomed over either.

In what order then? I wouldnt bother with thick skull on a pestigor ever, nor +AV. Claw beats + AV, the skills a pest can take beat thick skull among them foul app.

I thought of taking FA on my pests for a long time too, but its just too easy to bypass it with a RR if you need that pest down. If FA & DP were not split then it would be a different story (eg as in lrb4)..

[mattgslater]

Stand Firm has more deterrent value than Foul App. If you really need a push on 2d, Foul App brings your odds from 8/9 to 20/27; yes, that more than doubles your chance of failure, but it's not really a deterrent. It also has other applications, while FA does not.

[Wanchor]

Not in that order, surely.

I've been pondering Thick Skull myself lately, particularly for the fifth skill of my killer Pestigor in the interest of protecting him, but I can't decide between it and Foul Appearance. +AV or +ST would obviously be welcomed over either.

In what order then? I wouldnt bother with thick skull on a pestigor ever, nor +AV. Claw beats + AV, the skills a pest can take beat thick skull among them foul app.

I thought of taking FA on my pests for a long time too, but its just too easy to bypass it with a RR if you need that pest down. If FA & DP were not split then it would be a different story (eg as in lrb4)..

Stand Firm before Guard on a Beast, always and forever.

I'm not worried about Claw, as no one else in the league currently uses a team with M access. I use that Pestigor pretty surgically, jabbing away at vulnerable players and trying to keep him covered by my own, but every once in a while, I get stuck, skull out early or the like, and this guy, being Public Enemy #1, eats a blitz guaranteed, and often a foul thereafter. Stand Firm won't help a thing and I'm really not interested in taking it on him. +AV would help against blitzes and fouls, Foul Appearance might stop him from going down at all, as well as eating re-rolls, and Thick Skull is a foul deterrent and keeps him on the pitch longer. Dodge might work in this regard as well... or +MA, speed being armour and all that.

Might be overthinking this. We'll see what he rolls.

[number6]

+AV on a Pestigor is imo a solid option if they have Block at the very least. I'm very conservative with my Pestigors as the 8 AV doesn't seem to stand up. With a 9 AV I'd be a little more brazen/defensive with that mobile figure ... Claw aside of course but how may ppl play teams with lots of Mutation access.
I say this playing in a league where Chaos teams seem to be every-fricken-where Apparently not the norm?

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Wow I just listened to 3 die block Nurgle tactics, do people really think Nurgle shouldn't be built as a killer team? For me the main draw of Nurgle is that they get Claw MB Piling On and 9 regen so they can outbash anyone at high TV.

[inkpwn]

Its because they start without either of the two primary defensive skills, they use their mutations to form walls not weapons. Its hard to build into offense with such a slow costly team when they have so many area to fill already.Build on your starting defense. Its best to stay safe, you can have killer pieces but its not a killer team.
Leave C/MB/PO to the chaos players.

[garion]

Wow I just listened to 3 die block Nurgle tactics, do people really think Nurgle shouldn't be built as a killer team? For me the main draw of Nurgle is that they get Claw MB Piling On and 9 regen so they can outbash anyone at high TV.

It depends which environment you play in.

In a perpetual league they are the best bashers in the game. In a short to mid length TT league they are best developed as a defensive team - prefering skills like stand firm on their Nurgle Warrior over the killer combo. It is all dependant on league length and whether the seasons roll over or teams are restarted after each season.

[SunDevil]

Wow I just listened to 3 die block Nurgle tactics, do people really think Nurgle shouldn't be built as a killer team? For me the main draw of Nurgle is that they get Claw MB Piling On and 9 regen so they can outbash anyone at high TV.

Likje I said on the cast, Nurgle can be built to bash and do it well eventually. I just think that misses out on the fact that Nurgle are one of the few teams that can bebuilt to play a very good control game - winning without causing many casualties or scoring many touchdowns - and to make them just another bash crew undersells them a bit. Chaos bashes better a lot earlier, in my opinion.

Nothing against anyone who wants to bash with Nurgle - I will restart mine as a bash team many seasons from now - but I think playing them as total pitch control provides a coaching experience few other teams can match.

Your mileage may vary!

[Smeborg]

I also have said many times that I think Nurgle make a good slayer team. However, I also think that (a) Chaos make a better slayer team than Nurgle, and (b) Nurgle perform better as a stymie team than as a slayer team.

Hope that helps.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Hmm very interesting that there a few people who think Chaos make for a bashier team. For this I assume you are talking more of a long term environment and I am curious as to your reasoning behind it. Nurgle Warriors are better at bashing than Chaos Warriors because of regen and fa. Pestigors are better than beastmen because of regen. Beast is a lot better than Mino because I have yet to see a good Chaos team with a Mino. Rotters mean that you can have a deeper bench for more fouling and attrition. The FUMBBL stats show that at TV of 2000 plus Nurgle average more CAS than Chaos.
The thing is about Nurgle's disruptive ability is that it doesn't diminish by going a more killer route. Also in the shorter term Chaos Warriors are ridiculously easy to skill up with TDs but Nurgle Warriors will have to make most of their Spps by blocks. This is even more reason to go the killer route for me as MB first skill makes the NW a lot more likely to reach his 2nd skill, whereas CWs can go the Block Guard route quite quickly.

[Carnis]

I also have said many times that I think Nurgle make a good slayer team. However, I also think that (a) Chaos make a better slayer team than Nurgle, and (b) Nurgle perform better as a stymie team than as a slayer team.

Hope that helps.

I find it interesting though, that while not going the killyroute, you go stand firm over 10tacles too..

Check out stonetroll's team, random matchmaker opponents within +-15% of tv:

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=643544

Also at higher TV, nurgle really bash more than chaos, as per stats jimmy fantastic quoted earlier. The difference was 4.83 for chaos vs 6.7x for nurgle, not a minor difference either. Chaos plays ball, nurgle plays claw..

[SunDevil]

Hmm very interesting that there a few people who think Chaos make for a bashier team. For this I assume you are talking more of a long term environment and I am curious as to your reasoning behind it. Nurgle Warriors are better at bashing than Chaos Warriors because of regen and fa. Pestigors are better than beastmen because of regen. Beast is a lot better than Mino because I have yet to see a good Chaos team with a Mino. Rotters mean that you can have a deeper bench for more fouling and attrition. The FUMBBL stats show that at TV of 2000 plus Nurgle average more CAS than Chaos.
The thing is about Nurgle's disruptive ability is that it doesn't diminish by going a more killer route. Also in the shorter term Chaos Warriors are ridiculously easy to skill up with TDs but Nurgle Warriors will have to make most of their Spps by blocks. This is even more reason to go the killer route for me as MB first skill makes the NW a lot more likely to reach his 2nd skill, whereas CWs can go the Block Guard route quite quickly.

The killer route can be done, as we control fans have stated over and over. Is bash better in regards to on-pitch win percentage? Almost certainly. I admitted as much on the Nurgle cast. And while Nurgle can still be midly disruptive while being built to bash with the skills they already have, they can be made AMAZINGLY disruptive by going the control route.

Nurgle Warriors may be better bashers longterm than Chaos Warriors because of the extra skills but they are less likely to get there because they can really only get SPPs through casualties, and early casualties with them are heavily influenced by luck since they have no bash skills. Chaos Warriors can get to Block/MiB with TDs faster than Nurgle Warriors can. Then the CWs are causing casualties (and gaining SPPs) while the NWs are still trying to get Block. I don't see the NWs ever catching the CWs in this race. So are NWs better at high TV than the Chaos Warrior who has been at that value (and cracking skulls) for so much longer?

Sure, Pesties are better 1-on-1 than Beastmen. But you get a ton of Beastmen instead of the fragile Rotters and at only 20K more than a rotter, you can still time a well-placed boot if you really need to.

The Mino is wildly unpredictable, we all know that. But he a better bash player than the Beast. Horns/Frenzy mean more casualties than Tent/FA/DP.

Again, Nurgle can bash and do it well. I just think they provide a better, more challenging coaching experience through their control capabilities.

[Dzerards]

In the bash heavy, min/maxing of Fumbbl's Black Box and Cyanide's MM, where Claw-pomb is king, Nurgle are truly the killer team of choice. I don't think anyone can dispute that 9 players with ST access, Claw access, Regen and FA, make for a robust and effective high-TV murder-squad. Yeah, so what. Piling On to me is just Piling Yawn. Zero skill or thought required. You're welcome to your high win ratio (back-ended) and the "legions of admirers" that go with it.

On the other hand, if you can appreciate a more nuanced approach, a Stymie Nurgle team can give you, and your opponents, a more enjoyable, challenging experience against a range of opposing teams and across a range of TV levels.

With regard to the statement of Chaos being better killers, it's truer to say they are more natural killers, as it is the main/only development path open to them. That said I know of Chaos (and Dwarf) teams build as passing teams from time to time! But with Nurgle you have access to a play style that only Khemri (or maybe a mass-fend Norse side) can do effectively. If you don't have the temperament or desire to play them that way, fair enough, but to champion them as one dimensional death squads does the whole game of BB a disservice. Yep in certain contexts that will suit them best, but not all.

All that said, if I'm going to be playing Nurgle any length of time the Warriors will all get MB early, though not as a precursor to Claw-Piling On, but so they can actually get Guard, Tentacles, Stand Firm this decade!

[Smeborg]

I play BB in a tabletop environment where winning the game (scoring more TDs than your opponent) is rewarded and encouraged from the first game. All coaches in the league (myself included) enjoy causing CAS, indeed we enjoy it rather a lot, but none enjoy it as much as winning the game. We are not a perpetual league - 40 to 50 games is about as many as a Nurgle team is likely to see over its life. Racial variety in the league is good, so coaches can test their team (and its development strategy) against all comers. I suspect this may be a different environment, both technically and socially, to that of some other participants on this thread.

My development experience of Chaos vs. Nurgle suggests 2 important differences between the teams:

(a) Chaos Warriors are easy to skill up because of their AG3 (compared to Nurgle Warriors at AG2). Chaos Warriors can be given TDs early in order to skill them up, Nurgle Warriors cannot (at least, that is, if you are playing to win). Nurgle Warriors develop slowly - that is part of their character.

(b) Rotters do not retain skills (at least they should not if your opponents are playing properly). They just die (or retire if they are lucky). All you can do is to try and extend their useful life. When they are CASd, Rotters have a 25% chance of playing in the next game. This all means that Rotters cannot reliably be used for slayer skills (Dirty Player being a good example).

Stymie Nurgle works well when your players have a mixture of (say) 0,1, 2 and 3 skills each, provided you take a strict approach to development, with no deviation. It does not require the same level of skill investment that a slayer team needs (especially Chaos, with no starting Block or Tackle). The Stymie strategy is low risk in terms of skill investment (whereas a slayer team which loses its best one or two slayers is noticeably reduced in effectiveness, in my experience).

The same stymie skills that work to help Nurgle control the ball and the pitch seem also to work to reduce the effectiveness of slayer teams. For example: Stand Firm and Fend limit the ability of a Guard player to follow up a Block; Tentacles limits the ability of a slayer player to Blitz another player of choice.

I can only say that in my playing environment stymie Nurgle has proved to be quite a lot more effective (at winning) than slayer Nurgle, as well as being a hugely enjoyable and enduring coaching experience for both me and my opponents.

All the best.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Good post Smeborg. I can see where you are coming from with your opinions. I would like to say however that the best skill to keep Rotters alive is Dirty Player, as you can't die if you've been sent off!