How do you move a cage?

[estyles]

New to this board, just registered. Got the Cyanide version of BB a couple weeks ago and have been playing non-stop - this is a great game! I've read just about every strategy article I could find, including most of BBTactics. Anyway, I read the article on cages, and I understand the forming of the standard cage, loose cage, and sideline cage. And I'm decent at breaking a cage (oh man, had a fun match with Skaven against Vampires - Back up, back up, back up, stalling and waiting for the moment to strike. He rerolls all of his Blood Lust fails, then rolls trip skulls on a 3d block after which I pummel him and take the ball. Ragequit.)

My biggest problem though, is actually moving a cage. I just can't seem to do it right. Most of the time, I end up getting the ball-carrier marked, push the offender away and reform my cage, but make very little forward progress. It was getting bad enough that I made my Khemri team into a passing team in single player after both Throw-Ras got +AG. Does anyone know of a strategy article on how to advance a cage? Or have some tips? It's a big problem for me, and I don't feel comfortable playing running teams online.

[burgun824]

Easiest...simplist reply: Patience.

Take what your given and don't try anything drastic just to feel the need to force the ball down the field. If you're using a cage I presume that your managing the clock. This means you're going to want to use as many of your turns as you can in order to make 1 score and not let your opponent have the ball back with too much time. If its the second turn and you can't move because your covered up then don't sweat it. Just make your blocks and protect the ball. The end zone isn't going anywere.

If you start getting to the end of the half and you're feeling the pressure of getting into scoring range then you may need to reevaluate. If I'm going to use a cage I like to try and set it as near to the LOS as possible (even the opponent's half of the pitch if I can). This helps eleviate this pressure of moving the ball and take more time at protecting it and making successful blocks.

[Pug]

...bugger...
I was going to say carefully....which isn't too far from the truth!

[Dzerards]

Interesting question. I can't recall any articles talking about cage progression either now you come to mention it. What burgun824 says about patience is undoubtedly right, and would add that your blocking ability would have a big effect, if not the biggest, on your ability to create space to move through. There is a good article called the art of blocking on the GW site.

It's got to be said, there is a lot of variables to consider on this topic. All the defences listed on the BBtactics site would all need different strategies to penetrate them. Also a Dork Elf running game has different options available to it than say a Dwarf one.

As a rule of thumb, if I'm a stronger team going up against a weaker team I expect them to usually go for the one square stand off defence with their players doubling up in a column to prevent one blitz breaking the line. I like to use a wedge attack to claim real estate ahead of the cage for it to advance into in the preceding turns. If I can pin some of his defence against the sidelines all the better. If I'm a weaker team, say Necro, Norse, Amazon or DElves, up against a stronger team. I would expect them to swarm the cage, blitz one corner away and get tackle zones on the ballcarrier and the corners. It can get pretty hard to escape from such an attack and if you do you will usually have to go backwards. In which case you need to use mobile screens instead of a standard four point cage. Keep the ball deep and stretch the pitch. Doubling up the vulnerable corners can help if you have to cage up. Grod does a good article on cage defence on his FUMBBL page if you can find it. Against equally strong teams you're just going to have to slug it out.

Just remember not all running teams need to form a cage on the LOS and try to grind their way through. With Lizzies and Necro I typically hold the ball back deep infield with a skink or ghoul while the rest of the team look for an opening.

[Greyhound]

I'll admit the only team I can decently move my cage forward with is the lizzard team due to the speed factor. Cages do move slowly so don't expect a cage tactic to get anywhere close to the TD line in just 2 turns.

Tips:
- Kick Off Return is an awesome skill to get your cage built closer to the TD line
- try to have a few other players ready to re-cage already ahead of you or on the other side.
- don't hesitate to hand-off where necessary to roll the cage up with different players (not a great advise for Khemri)
- moving a cage always includes a certain risk factor with dice rolls involved. Prepare for plan B, this can range from dump-off (not great for Khmeri) to leaving a safety behind.
- if the clock is ticking, learn to GFI, if the clock isn't learn not to.
- Break Tackle
- caging near the sideline means that you can safely regroup your 6 other players (not caging) to provide assists and slow down the opponent. Watch out for Leaping Witches and other players who could push you out of the field though.

[estyles]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I have been slowly learning. The idea of having advance players ready to form a secondary cage upfield is a good one I think - I've done that a few times already with good success (against AI, though), just need to be able to *plan* to do that rather than it just happening accidentally. I've been trying out Dark Elves and I think I really like them. Dump Off is such a fun skill. It doesn't come into play too much on a standard run play, but on a broken play, or on a... takeaway (? - I would call it a turnover in American football, but turnover means something totally different in BB), or when time's ticking down and you have to sometimes have your Runner out in the open with the ball, it's awesome. I don't think the Assassin fits my playstyle, too inconsistent and doesn't seem to do much against bashy teams which give me the most trouble (not to mention expensive), but I don't think it's too outside-the-box to play DE with no Assassins.

Will have to digest some of the other information. It's too bad there's no detailed guide - Coach's guide on cage basics was very informative, but stopped short of advice on advancing a cage (also on breaking a cage, but I saw his separate article on that).

[burgun824]

...just need to be able to *plan* to do that rather than it just happening accidentally...

If you figure out a way to *plan* anything in this game please let us all know as soon as possible. In my experience, every time I make a plan more complex then "try and put the ball in the end zone" Nuffle comes along and Nuffle's me in my Nuffle.

...Coach's guide on cage basics was very informative, but stopped short of advice on advancing a cage...

As stated above, this is likely due to the massive amount of variables involved with such a tactic. Cage moving is a situational thing 100% of the time. It needs to have the freedom to adapt to the circumstances...which will undoubtedly NOT be in your favor most times.

[estyles]

If you figure out a way to *plan* anything in this game please let us all know as soon as possible.

Like so:

1) Carefully work out moves for 3 to 4 turns in advance, anticipating where a crafty opponent will try to thwart you, where you might roll poorly and need a backup plan, where you have outs in case of a failed attempt, and how you can use the desired number of turns to put the ball in the endzone (e.g. the rest of the half to stall, or as quickly as possible so you can try to take the ball back and score again).

2) Fail.

[inkpwn]

Ain't that the truth. Nuffle loves pain in all its forms. He would much rather have both players suffering in every turn (there own and the opponents) then see you make that 3+ surehands pick up. Four seperate ones from the same skaven thrower in a row across 2 games. (obviously when attempting the action, not one turn after another that would be sillly)

[Steam Ball]

Gerard probably means this Grod post which has some info about advancing. IIRC a bit risky example, using GFI for bottom WW so if he fails, the screen is weaker, but you can get the idea (you could move the WW normal, and GFI the bottom Z instead).

[burgun824]

Nice estyles. Your grasping of this game comes quickly. Eventually you will learn to abbreviate it as follows:

1) Plan

2) Fail

[duckwing]

"No plan survives contact with the enemy"
-Helmuth von Moltke

[Dzerards]

Nuffle does kinda kick strategists in the ghoulies! Tactics rule on the blood bowl pitch, while strategy is reduced to wishful thinking! Such as do I hope to score quickly or not. Most of the time you just have to wait and see what your opponent and the dice have left for you.

Gerard probably means this Grod post which has some info about advancing. IIRC a bit risky example, using GFI for bottom WW so if he fails, the screen is weaker, but you can get the idea (you could move the WW normal, and GFI the bottom Z instead).

Yeah, I didn't realise the number of GFIs involved, but the underlying principles are sound.

[XAos]

How you move a cage depends on what team your playing & what team your opponent is playing.
If you have a team with effective catchers, you can usually advance the cage by putting multiple catchers into the backfield. If your opponent deploys a zone defense to deal with all the catchers, they won't have enough players left to block the cage. If the catchers arn't marked by an adaquate zone defense. Then you abandon the cage & throw a pass.

If the front of your cage has multiple players with frenzy (e.g. dwarf troll-slayers), just use tackle to creep forward a couple of squares each turn.

If your opponents team is noticably weaker than your own, a smart opponent will reduce the number of tackles you can declare by backing away from the cage. If they do that, creep forward behind them & exploit any failed dodge rolls which leave a whole for a more rapid advance. Sooner or later you opponent will fail a dodge roll...

[SierraKiloBravo]

Agree wholeheartedly with burgun. Patience is the biggest thing. If you're caging, then you're playing a team that probably wants to score slowly, so you really have to fight the urge and temptation to just get to the endzone as quickly as possible. Take what they give you.

This came to me only after a lot of time and frustration, but keep at it.