Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB) :P

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ratimir
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by ratimir »

Remove? nothing.

Revise? Amazons (for most of the usual reasons)

Rebuild from scratch? Khemri.

First thing: The name.
There is a human team, not an Altdorf team. There is a High Elf team, not a Lothern or Ulthuan team. There is Chaos Dwarf team, not a Zharr-Naggrund team. By any reasonable standard of consistency, the 'Khemri' team should be called either Tomb Kings or Nehekhara (For those unfamiliar with the relevant Warhammer geography, Khemri is the capital of Nehekhara). Numas, Zandri, Quatar, Mahrak & Lybaras (or to put it another way, the rest of Nehekhara) presumably play too.

Second thing: The history.
I'm not overly keen on the idea that the original game was a Slann/Khemri thing. On the plus side, it's a bit of a callback to a 1st or 2nd ed line which described Ramtut III as being a veteran of the original game. But it undermines what I consider to be one of the chief sources of humour in the Blood Bowl background: the idea that the excessive violence, mayhem and everything else that makes blood bowl so fun is all due to the misunderstanding of a (more or less) peaceful sport. Also ruins the NFL/Nuffle joke and leaves us with the mystery of where Amorica is.

Third thing: The names.
I'm a self confessed punner, and puns have always been a part of Blood Bowl. It would be a shame to see them lost completely. But Thro-Ra and Blitz-Ra are just ... :puke:. It wouldn't be so bad if they were tucked away in the background where you can safely ignore them 99% of the time, but they're right there in the team list. It's basically impossible to play with or against Khemri without being reminded of the sheer mindboggling lameness. If we can get the equally grating Sillibilli toned down to Slibli, why couldn't we just have throwers and blitzers, or at worst throwras and blitzras, without the hyphen and capitalisation to draw attention to the awfulness?

Fourth thing: The Warhammer connection.
I know, there's a lot of debate over how closely Warhammer and Blood Bowl should be tied, but it seems fairly clear to me that the intention has always been to parody or mock Warhammer first, football (of all varieties, but especaially the NFL) second, generic fantasy third and then pretty much anything else. I mean, the Khemri team wouldn't exist if Warhammer's Undead hadn't been split down the middle. So why do we have a team based on a mummy kingdom, which may or may not have mummies? Is a 'Tomb Guardian' a different sort of mummy? In Warhammer a Tomb Guard is basically a wight (when they split the undead, we got Tomb Guards for the Tomb Kings and wights (now Grave Guard) for the vampires, with identical stats). Isn't this a little bit pointlessly confusing for those who play both games? And it leaves us with the strange position of having a team based on a mummy themed and mummy led army without any players that are unambiguously mummies.

But more importantly, we missed the oppurtunity to grab an awesome new player type. The Ushabti. IMO the single coolest thing in the Tomb Kings army book. And having a distinctly egyptian styled animated statue on the lineup does a hell of a lot more to establish the right 'feel' for the team than tacking a '-Ra' suffix onto your positional skeletons.

So basically I like nothing at all about the current 'Khemri' team. Well, the models aren't bad, and their rules seem reasonable if uninteresting.

I say scrap the current lineup completely and change to something more like:
NEHEKHARAN TEAMS
0-16 Skeletons 40k 5 3 2 7 Regeneration, Thick Skull G/ASP
0-4 Tomb Guards 90k 6 3 3 8 Regeneration, Block GS/AP
0-2 Mummies 120k 3 5 1 9 Mighty Blow, Regeneration S/GAP
0-1 Ushabti 140k? 4 5 1 10 Stand Firm, Loner, Bonehead, Thick Skull, Juggernaut S/GAP

Just for the record, I do not use, nor do I have any intention of ever using, a Tomb King army or team (under any rules, including the ones I've slapped together here). I just see so many problems with the 'Khemri' team that I consider them a blight on one of my all time favourite games.

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"It seems evident that nobody will gain from this strict enforcement of copyright laws, but the SF/F hobbyist will definitely lose." - Ian Livingstone, co-founder of Games Workshop, in White Dwarf Issue 5
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by voyagers_uk »

I quite like that roster....simple and elegant

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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by inkpwn »

No regen on the ushabti?

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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by voyagers_uk »

never satisfied some people

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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by inkpwn »

voyagers_uk wrote:never satisfied some people
Just a question vuk, just seemed a tad strange it not having regen. Always imagine them re-knitting with egyptian magiks.

P.s I liked your older avatar better :p

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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by Babs »

As a BBRC member, I can reveal that it was Jervis's original plan (perhaps pushed on him by higher up GW) to do away with Both the Undead team and the High Elf team, replaced with other 'variants'.

As a result, there is definately designed 'double up' somewhere in the undead / elf team rosters, so one of those would be the logical choice.

For me? I'd choose Underworld creepers if they were a viable team to 'delete'. Their roster is merely an amalgum of other rosters (mutations on trolls excepted) and their gameplay can be roughly approximated by other teams. Of course, that's my 2 cents and of course this team is not in the 'officlal' list.

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=-) Babs (crotchety old, washed up has-been)
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by voyagers_uk »

surely that should be "As a former BBRC member" given it doesn't exist anymore....?

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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by Dihenydd »

What? No Decay? :roll:

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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by plasmoid »

'ey Babs - mits off the Creepers! :wink:
They're a lovely and unique team. Skill access makes sure of that.
They're my #1 favourite team to play.
Cheers
Martin

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Narrow Tier BB? http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/NTBB.htm
Or just visit http://www.plasmoids.dk instead
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by cyagen »

I'll fetch my pitchfork and defend the Underworld with you Plasmoid.

It is a team with a unique playing and development style.

The 3 Tier 1,5 teams bring something unique to the game so they should stay.

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Kick off return was my idea :)
http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6355&p=174621#p174621
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by Babs »

surely that should be "As a former BBRC member" given it doesn't exist anymore....?
LOL. Except I have an email from Jervis recommending that 5 years from the CRP release there be another review of the rules then.... or something like that.

I think the 'disband' was to enable that future review to be free from any obligations to any of the existing members, and the members to be free from obligations from that future review.

So in my mind, I'm in hiatus, not disbanded. Just because you're not doing any 'active work' for five years doesn't mean you still don't have the title :) Maybe Jervis would disagree, maybe not. I'm happy to leave it at that, wait and see whether I'm called up at some point in the future.


... and as for the creepers, as far as _any_ teams you're going to delete you'll get torches and pitchforks - but that's still the best option for me. No impact on reduction of miniature range or diversity of play IMO.

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=-) Babs (crotchety old, washed up has-been)
ex-BBRC member
ex-NAF AUS/NZ Tournament organiser


Make sure you have read the Feudball Novel.
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by Oly1987 »

Sure the question should be 'What teams would you add?' not 'What teams would you remove?'. Variety is the spice of life and i like the idea that when you take to the gridiron you could be playing against any one of a couple dozen teams. Theres still plenty of ideas for new 'specialist' teams and i think they should be embraced as they can only serve to create a greater depth in the game. That being said i do agree that some teams need reviewing.

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4 catchers and a thrower with hail mary pass, what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by Heff »

Not so much remove as amend the linemen.

DWARVES

blockers are almost perfect from the box. ten of then + runner +apo + re-rolls perfectly competent team. try that with any other team. Come with block AND tackle and AV9 with Thick Skull. So they move 4, who cares. You will rarely skill them up, but again who cares they are fine as they are.

Oddly don't mind them on the chaos dwarf team but then 6 is so much easier to cope with than 10.

I know "play better"

Dwarves I hates them

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Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by Heff »

I would make a special rule

When playing dwarves all opposing linemen get mighty blow and claw. Cos the gods of CHAOS hate dwarves too


GRRRR

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Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
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Re: Given a choice, which race(s) would you remove? (from BB

Post by fearlessmidget »

Heff wrote:Not so much remove as amend the linemen.

DWARVES

blockers are almost perfect from the box. ten of then + runner +apo + re-rolls perfectly competent team. try that with any other team.

10 Wood Elf Liners
1 Wardancer
Apothecary
2 Re-Rolls
-----------
970K, bank the 30

That team certainly wouldn't be my first pick, but it's not horrible, and could probably win its first few games as long as you rolled decent on your dodges.

Not a big dwarf fan, they're everything I hate. But I think longbeards are entirely reasonably priced, especially in a league since they're sooooo hard to skill up.

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