B-r-e-t-t-o-n-i-a-n-s, really why not?

[burgun824]

Hi Burgun,
1) may look like cheese to you. But the team is balanced.
2) Why would a Bretonnian athlete wear mailed gloves? Nonsense.

1) I can not prove that it isn't balanced, so I'll assume for a moment that it is. Just because something is balanced doesn't mean that it makes sense. The team may in fact be balanced by the other players on the roster being weaker or lesser. However, a knight wears armor, typically lots of it. Armor typically makes one slower and less agile. A knight is a human and wouldn't constitute a ST increase. Therefore a stat line of 6329 makes a lot more sense. Nobody would use this type of player as a catcher so therefore catch is wiped. Block and Dauntless I can buy off on. I like that combo and it would turn him into a reasonable threat of muscle, but not without the risk of a dauntless fail. GS skill set is correct. The cost would probably need to be lowered. Now this player is no longer a cheese factory. Unfortunately, reducing this player in such a fashion would most likely unbalance your roster, if it is in fact balanced as you claim it to be. I would then rebalance it by making your linemen 6337 take away fend and allow them access to more skill types. I wouldn't change the Yeomen outside of swapping wrestle for fend. That is what would make sense to me. Please tell me where I've gone wrong.

2) As stated above...because knights wear lots of armor. This typically would include gauntlets. Gauntlets are not ideal for catching a football.

[plasmoid]

And my reply is that these are not knights running a military drill.
These are athlete noblemen from Bretonnia.

[burgun824]

And my reply is that these are not knights running a military drill.
These are athlete noblemen from Bretonnia.

So is that the pat excuse for getting around the fact that the character is over powered? Basically a nice way of saying, "Thanks for your comments, but I like it the way I've got it and I'm not going to change it,"

Frankly I don't see the point in representing Bretonnians at all if you're not going to have a proper "Knight" on the filed, but I digress. This is were I have a problem with this whole idea. We get told that we're "Bret hating" and "insulting people". I don't think there is anyone on this website that wouldn't tell you to have fun playing that roster in your own league if that's what you want to do. But that's not how it get's presented to us. It starts being stated that this thing needs to be considered for submission into the actual ruleset and that's when I raise an eyebrow. Then some folks become slightly adamant about it having some massive flaws and now they're somehow the a-holes. Have you ever considered that it may be insulting to us to have it suggested that we should live with and have to play against a team that we feel is improperly designed for what our standards of a "Brettonian" should be. I live with other teams that I don't necessarily like but at least they've been worked out to make some semblance of sense for what they're trying to represent. I don't see a point in even considering a Bret team without a proper Knight...that wears armor...WITH gauntlets...and is a pompous ass.

[plasmoid]

For a minute there I forgot your MO.

Here's the thing:
The first Bret roster I presented here some 10 years ago was a proper army roster, with 2 kinds of knights and 2 kinds of squires.
Then I got hit with a shitload of comments that a Blood Bowl team consists of professional athletes, not army left-overs.
And that's how it became Bretonnians playing Blood Bowl: I.e. a hyper stratified team, with glory-hogging arrogant noblemen at the bottom and dirty useless cannon-fodder at the bottom.

Feel insulted all you want. Or just pretend to.
But I think you're in a massive minority when it comes to that plate-mail nonsense.
Warhorse anyone?

Cheers
Martin

[burgun824]

First off, let me be clear that I have no personal beef with you. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean other peole can't. In my opinion you're simply a guy that likes Brets and created a roster.

Now having said that I wonder why anyone in their right mind would suggest that a Brettonian team not have proper knights, let alone a majority. Brettonians exist for one reason...to give the Grail Geeks and Knight Lovers something to get excited about so that they'll loosen their purse strings and Granny can reach her fat paw in there. In other words, there's a market for this crap. Now I'm not one to ruin someone's good time, so don't take it that way. I realize that if there's a market for it then there's a legitimate argument for including it. I still don't think it will happen anytime soon so I'm not personally worried about it, but if it were to happen then I would want to see it done properly with "KNIGHTS" and "PEASANTS" like the old Albion team. I would be very interrested in seeing that original roster you speak of if you've got it somewhere or could link it quickly. I'm willing to bet it's closer to what I would consider Brettonian then what you've got now.

And just for the record...I'm not personally insulted. But I do wonder where you get some of your "percentages" that you speak of. All of the polls I see show most people still are not in favor...and I do realize that those polls are merely a snap shot and nowere near reliable, but they do give you a good idea. I can't honestly believe without proof that I would be in a massive minority for Knights being Knights instead of some fancy prancing noblemen. And before some ubergeek points out that, "Knights are fancy prancing noblemen" ...I realize that. But Knights wear armor into battle and BB IS battle.

You can't have a warhorse. It doesn't make sense. Not without giving it Secret Weapon and treating it similarly to a Deathroller.

[Asperon Thorn]

Hi Asperon,
so - no matter what the outcome of the poll, it magically supports your personal opinion.
Neat

You mean that my personal opinion is in line with the polls? And that the trending can be attributed to over-saturation of a topic?

I am sure your sarcasm would be a lot more meaningful if I wasn't willing to express my opinion against the greater majority on any topic. This just happens to be a topic where I don't have to. I simply need to consider the changing demographic of the site to understand the trend. But, as JJ so rightfully pointed out to me several years ago, TBB (or TFF now) is not the community at large but a small vocal minority.

So how you can argue that a small vocal minority of an already small vocal minority is an increased demand for an official team. . is beyond me.

Asperon Thorn

[plasmoid]

Hi Burgun,
talk to Joemanji.
Blood Bowl teams are not military units.
Chaos Warriors don't get clumsy AG2 from Chaos Armor either.

Cheers
Martin

PS - I don't know which percentages you mean. But the 60-40 are from the tally of this thread.

[plasmoid]

Hi Asperon,

I simply need to consider the changing demographic of the site to understand the trend.

I don't know where you get all this bullet proof knowledge of the demographic.
But maybe the changing demographic of the site represents a changing demographic among the players.

But, as JJ so rightfully pointed out to me several years ago, TBB (or TFF now) is not the community at large but a small vocal minority.

Yet somehow Darksons old poll was absolute proof for 4 years that everybody hates Brets.
Strange indeed.

[Thadrin]

I don't think many hate Brettonians.
I think the majority just don't see the point.

[Darkson]

I couldn't give a flying f**k what anyone houserules into their own league - it's an individuals/groups choice. Personally, I won't let the Bret list in here, but what Joe Bloggs does down the road is none of my business.

If someone ra a tourney that allowed them, I might attend, I might not, depends on a lot of factors - given a straight yes/no choice, I'd say no, but my tourney attendence is never a straight yes/no, there are to many other things to consider (time off, finances, etc...). if 2 tourneys on the same weekend, for the same cost to me, one with, one without, I'd attend the without.


What bugs me is the constant whining "why aren't they in the rules??? wah wah wah" - we've been over this soooooo many times.

Let's break it down:

JJ doesn't want them.
The BBRC didn't want them.
GW obviously don't care one way or the other, otherwise they'd have "suggested" they got added.
The majority of respondants at the time it mattered didn't want them.
The rules are locked down for the forseeable future, and are no longer "Living", so they're not going to be added.


They are not in the rules, they are not going to be added to the rules - finished, ended, no more! If you want to houserule them, good for you, do it, just as if you wanted to houserule a Imperial Stormtrooper team in, go for it (I'd actually like to see that modelled!), but they are, and will not be, added to the rules, so stop bleating on and on and on and on... about it.

[inkpwn]

I don't think many hate Brettonians.
I think the majority just don't see the point.

*strokes beard* yeah I see your point thadrin, do you think this applies to any popular theme not already in the CRP?

Say if we were trying to get khemri in(pretend they wernt)? Would everyone make the same, I can't imagine them playing, I don't see the point of this team, I don't see the point of another team arguments?

@darkson 0.o? Nerd rage much.

[Darkson]

Say if we were trying to get khemri in(pretend they wernt)? Would everyone make the same, I can't imagine them playing, I don't see the point of this team, I don't see the point of another team arguments?

Given the crap they turned the roster into, no, I don't think Khemri would get added, and to be honest, with the CRP version, that's probably not a bad thing.

[inkpwn]

I was trying to speak about unusuall teams in general but ok burguns824's thread did feature a whole lot of khemri hate.

What about chaos dwarfs (yes I'm hijaking my own thread)?

[Darkson]

Nowt wrong with the roster, but the models SUCK!
But that wouldn't stop the roster getting added (imo) - it's a good solid roster (even though I'm no good with them, or Elves, or humans, or...any of them! ).

[plasmoid]

@Darkson: Agreed. (Except the khemri thing, I think they're an interesting challenge).