Where is the point in having cheerleaders and assist coaches

[christer]

You can't fire assistant coaches, only players. Once you've got him you're stuck with him, just like rerolls.

Actually, this is subject to commisioner ruling. There's nothing in the rulebook that says you can't. Same goes with tossing rerolls if someone would want that.

Atleast that's what I was told when I asked one of the BBRC members.

-- Christer

[sean newboy]

Many leagues in the past have used secondary rules for ass coaches and cheerleaders. I have seen several versions of rules for them. I dont care one way or the other. By the way technically retiring a player to be an ass coach doesnt raise your tr, it just doesnt drop it fully the price of the player.

[Zombie]

Pariah, it is bad strategy. I've demonstrated it mathematically, and you haven't even tried to refute any of my facts. I've never burned any SPPs on freebooting, because i only freeboot stars (expensive so rarely) and wizards, and both of them only in the playoffs. Maybe you haven't noticed, but freebooting a star in the final increases your fighting chance dramatically, as you're getting a great player for only half the price. It's much better than spending the money on assistant coaches at any rate.

[Munkey]

I'm not worried about giving up handicaps, just don't see why I should for such little gain as I get from an assistant coach. Actually the money was more of an issue than the handicap as until the night of a gmae I don't know what the handicap outcome is.

We've always played that coaching staff can be fired, if this was ever changed I would never saddle myself with an assistant coach.

On the subject it seems such a small part of the rules (2 rolls on the kickoff table) to have positions on the roster for. Anyone else think there may have been expanded rules or plans for some when 3ed was released that were dropped at the last minute?

[phil]

adding lots of new rules for coaches and cheerleaders tempts disaster, especially with the specifics of some of the rules i've seen... it's true that my tabletop league does have some rules for these staff members, and they probably do have too much impact, but in this particular case, i've tied the use of these rules to the team having miniatures for those staff members, the rules were a way to encourage painted miniatures, but that's another topic...

...anyway, the actual point of this post is to say that giving staff more rules is going to risk upsetting the game a bit, however, i've found a great way to make them more important, and to make the overall game more interesting... new kickoff tables... my leagues use expanded stadium-specific kickoff tables which allows for many more results that use the staff members, and having them is thus far more advisable than not... it's a nice way to encourage that part of the game without also introducing unsettling factors into flow of play...

for those who havn't seen them,
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/phio ...look under "stadiums"

[Munkey]

I would agree that over intricate rules would not be a good way to go for coaches and cheerleaders.

There either needs to be a simple ruling that makes them slightly more effective than they are currently without being too powerful or they should be removed as unessecary rules that no one uses.

On the other hand as everyone ignores them anyway I guess it doesn't really matter

[Ghost of Pariah]

I am refuting your facts Zombie. I win games. I win more games than I lose. What else is there to say?

So let me get this straight? You hate stars and your league doesn't use them but you freeboot them for the finals? Also your freebooted stars give you a fighting chance but they don't take up any SPP's?

Sounds like you're full of crap to me. How do your stars win games for you without gaining SPP's? How do you freeboot stars when you have said many times (here and at BBC) that your league banned stars a long time ago?

Come off it. You're just arguing for the sake of it. Besides as far as I know nobody here has ever played you in a game.

[Mojoshenpo]

Personally I have an assistant coach but he will be fired the instant he will cause me to lose 10k on the winnings table or take a handicap card i needn't without him.

You can't fire assistant coaches, only players. Once you've got him you're stuck with him, just like rerolls.

What brings you to this conclusion?

[Zombie]

I am refuting your facts Zombie. I win games. I win more games than I lose. What else is there to say?

That's not a refutal. You'd win more games if you didn't have them.

So let me get this straight? You hate stars and your league doesn't use them but you freeboot them for the finals?

We hate star players and didn't use them in 3rd ed. In 4th ed (appearance fees) and LRB, we felt that the cost was high enough to balance them a little more, and warrant bringing them back. We hire them in the playoffs because it's the "strategic" thing to do.

Also your freebooted stars give you a fighting chance but they don't take up any SPP's?

Well, we don't score with them! As for the few CAS they get, that's not SPPs taken away, as the stupid lineman who would have been there otherwise probably wouldn't have been able to cause the CAS anyway. Besides, come playoff time, who gets SPPs is secondary and winning the game is the only thing that counts.

Sounds like you're full of crap to me.

Again with the personal attacks. I enjoy debating things with people who can make proper arguments. This is called ad ominem, and not the proper way to debate. All it demonstrates is your own inferiority complex, and it does nothing for your argument.

Besides as far as I know nobody here has ever played you in a game.

Some have through BBirc in the dreaded few months when i was stupid enough to try the OLBBL. But that's another story, and it sure seems like another example of ad ominem attacks to me. Go take logic 101 and come back with real arguments please. I see none in this post, or any post from you in this thread for that matter.

I think you're just mad because i stopped answering your personal attacks through PM. No reason to lash it out on everyone here.

[Zombie]

You can't fire assistant coaches, only players. Once you've got him you're stuck with him, just like rerolls.

What brings you to this conclusion?

The fact that there are rules in the book for buying rerolls, rules for buying players, rules for buying assistant coaches and cheerleaders, rules for firing players, but no rules whatsoever for firing coaching staff or getting rid of rerolls.

[Munkey]

The fact that there are rules in the book for buying rerolls, rules for buying players, rules for buying assistant coaches and cheerleaders, rules for firing players, but no rules whatsoever for firing coaching staff or getting rid of rerolls.

The rules for retiring players appear to me to be worded almost as an afterthought, and just to ensure that coaches realise they can't have more than 16 players.

To my mind anything could be retired from the team, although there are not many reasons for retiring rerolls or apothecaries.

I guess it could be interpreted either way but thats the way I read it.

[wesleytj]

To my mind anything could be retired from the team, although there are not many reasons for retiring rerolls or apothecaries.

I guess it could be interpreted either way but thats the way I read it.

Well "retiring" rerolls could be done as a way to systematically keep tr's low. Drop a reroll, buy one for full price, drop reroll, buy for full price, etc. LRB has taken away the need for that by reducing the amount of cash you can bring in. I personally have fired an apoth before as well, after he rolled a 1 four games in a row.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Not lashing out. Asking you pointed questions. Quit being a child.

How do you Star players win games for you if you don't use them? You have said many times that you hate starts and your league doesn't use them. You are contracdicting yourself. I stated that I think you are full of it because of these contradictions. That is not an attack.

The fact that I win is proof that my strategy works. Get over yourself. There's more than one way to play the game.

And besides, like I said before, your statement about destroying my people was an attack. If I stated that I hated Quebecers and I hope they get destroyed, that is an attack. At any rate we are not here to discuss your small minded hatred of a country we are here to discuss tactics.

I stated my tactic for assistant coaches. It works. I have proof. You say it doesn't. So what? It does and if you don't want to believe me then so be it. You don't have to play that way. Nobody said you did. I do freeboot stars on rare occaisiins but I don't always play with 9 FF. You do. Both work. Just because I don't use a 9 Fan Factor doesn't mean you are wrong to do it. My brother won an entire season by having a starting FF of 1, It worked for him. I'm sure you'll say it stupid and a bad strategy. You aren't very open minded and it doesn't seem like you have seen many examples of winning strategies.
I don't think you play the game at all to be honest. Again, not an attack. An observation. Your tactics often contradict each other and you don't seem to be able to keep your leage's rules straight and you don't seem to see that there is more than one way to run each team. You seem like a very inexperienced player. Or you have a very small group of coaches and only play them. Ya know a person who consistently beats the same chess partner never grows and never gets any better. Maybe this is your problem. Maybe it's why you can't see any success outside of you own strategies.
In conclusion, don't bash my winning ways just because you do it differently. There's more than one way to skin a cat and only a rookie thinks his way is the only way.

[Zombie]

Our "very small group of coaches" has had at least 40 players in it over the years. Like i said, there's a lot of turnover here from people new at the uni, those who go out 4 months for work terms and those who leave uni. I've seen many different strategies. And i've played in other leagues (both on the internet and in another town) as well.

But the point is that with assistant coaches, it's purely mathematical. You could have a 100-game winning steak, it still wouldn't prove that your strategy regarding assistant coaches is good. Math does. In this case, there are no imponderables (is that even a word in English?) and everything can be accounted for mathematically. That's not the case for many things in Blood Bowl, but it's the case here. Saying you win isn't proof. Showing the math is, and that's what i've done. If you can't trust math, then there's nothing i can do for you.

[Ghost of Pariah]

You just don't get it, do you?

You start every team with FF 9. I don't. I buy assistant coaches instead.
The difference is you give your opponents money and I win Kick off table events. You earn more cash per game and I get temp rerolls more often. Your TR goes up from gaining more cash. I don't like it that way. Our TR's probably don't grow at different rates. Your way looks like a waste of money and SPP's to me. My way looks like a waste of money and TR to you. Nobody is right or wrong. Your math is short sighted. You assumed that I have a 9 FF. You assume that I have the same starting line up as you. You assume I progess the team the same way as you. You assumed alot. You know what they say about assuming?
Bottom line is that this board isn't for discussing why your way is better. I believe somebody asked a question at the beginning of the thread. You voiced an opinion and told him how you run your team. I did the same. The difference is you decided to attack me and my ways by using some short sighted formula to try to prove I do it wrong. This forum is for sharing ideas. Yours are right and mine are right. If you can't deal with that then I suggest you post elsewhere. Either way I suggest you stop attacking me or at least do it privately. I am not about to defend every statement I make for you. I have played BB everybit as long as you and my ways work just as well as yours. Live with it. We aren't here for a pissing contest.
I run my teams a different way. Your way works for you and has positives. My way works for me and has positives. Neither one is better. That's the point of the game and this forum. This forum is not here for you to call people poor coaches because thier methods diifer from yours. Especially when you can't see all the facts. The asker of the question should decide what way works best for him.
It's not a contest. Anybody who feels they have a good way of coaching is correct. We are here to share ideas. Not flame and call each other's methods wrong. You need to check yourself.