B-r-e-t-t-o-n-i-a-n-s, really why not?

[Darkson]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20853

People gave "legitimate" opposition over the last few years - repeatedly, on multiple threads started by Plasmoid. Just because you've only joined the site in the last few months, doesn't mean we have to give it all over again (and for the record, "I don't like them" is a legitimate reason).

And the best reason to stop bloody posting about it is - they're not going to get added. JJ doesn't want them, the BBRC has been disbanded, and the rules aren't going to change for at least 5 years, if not longer.
By all means, House Rule them if you want, but they are not going to be made official, so there's no point in continually bleating about it.

[Krulfang]

Thanks for the link. However, the same reasons are listed there, and as voyagers_uk said then, I shall repeat now: "But, I hate being told that because you think they suck that I cannot have them either". I don't want to play Brets, but I don't want the 40+% that voted here to be denied a team that they would like to play as/against. Just because I'm new to the forum doesn't mean I'm new to how to have fun.

The profanity censor should be removed however, as it is unnecessary and shows nothing but mean spirits. That is the thing that really riled me up. If you noticed, I was out of this thread until that happened. I noticed this in my thread about square bases. I will agree to disagree with you, but seriously, get rid of the profanity censor.

I do not expect to change your mind about Brets. However, if you ignore everything else I say, just take this out of it: get rid of the profanity censor. It is insulting to plasmoid at the very least, though it is also a method of insulting the intelligence of the other side of the debate. This goes directly against the Codes of Conduct DoubleSkulls posted here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29661 Brettonian should not be changed to what it says right now, as it is blatantly attacking plasmoid, in what I perceive as a personal way.

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
Darkson said:

despite the majority of posters (here at least) not wanting them?

Actually, based on this poll, it might not be a majorty anymore...
So while can see why you'd cling to the other poll, it was started 4 years ago, so maybe something
happened in that time?

Also, it seems a common approach to accuse me of repeatedly starting Bret threads. For the past 4 years I'm not sure I've started any about Bretonnians. But I've replied to lots. Like this one by Arthurinkpen.

Rodders,
For a long time Brets have been called 'too WFB', because BB has shifted back towards its golden roots.
The point is merely that knights & peasants are part of those roots.

Either way,
some sad sad mod is abusing mod-status.

Anybody know who the über-mod is? I'd like to ask a question.

Cheers
Martin

[voyagers_uk]

wasn't me, I like Brets

[artjones123]

I'm putting my support behind the Mega-City Judges and Fatties team, if we're going 1st ed.

They were never official and you know it

With the comeback of the slann, only three 1st ed team are still missing:

-Half-orcs: they were pretty dull, so it's not a great loss.

-Heroes of law: I love this team but it's certainly broken: tree, elves, dwarfs, halflings and humans... It's probably better to forget it

-Albion wanderers: a cool k-n-i-g-h-t team

So Albion wanderers is the last interesting missing team from 1st ed. They don't deserve to be lost somewhere in the BB warp.

[GalakStarscraper]

I'm putting my support behind the Mega-City Judges and Fatties team, if we're going 1st ed.

They were never official and you know it

Actually you are incorrect. They were an official 1st ed team. They were introduced in White Dwarf magazine ... the same way that the Skaven team was introduced to 1st edtion.

Skaven were officially added in White Dwarf #86
The Judges and Fatties team were officially added in White Dwarf #88

[rodders]

was going to post something profound about the poll telling the real story with op posting 1 option for them and 4 for not but i'll not bother the ammount of sense of humor failures around here and people going over all the old ground yet again is getting boring .



no wonder few of the old guard remain on this forum

[spubbbba]

Hi all,
Darkson said:

despite the majority of posters (here at least) not wanting them?

Actually, based on this poll, it might not be a majorty anymore...
So while can see why you'd cling to the other poll, it was started 4 years ago, so maybe something
happened in that time?

Actually in 4 years you've gained about 2%. In the poll thread Darkson linked 60% were against (25% Bretts in any shape 35% said to use the human roster) whilst 40% were for but only 25% of those liked your roster the other 15% wanted something different. As the poll in this thread has the option "wouldn't mind them if they were well designed" it doesn't follow that those 43% could decide on a particular roster so going by the same split it would be 27% like you roster but 16% want a Brett team but somehow different.

Thanks for the link. However, the same reasons are listed there, and as voyagers_uk said then, I shall repeat now: "But, I hate being told that because you think they suck that I cannot have them either". I don't want to play Brets, but I don't want the 40+% that voted here to be denied a team that they would like to play as/against. Just because I'm new to the forum doesn't mean I'm new to how to have fun.

You can house rule any team you want in your own league, no one's saying you can't. But the majority of coaches on this site don't want to play with or against a Bret team and don't want it added to the rules, so why should their majority view be ignored. if that's not enough Jervis and the BBRC didn't see fit to add them to the official rules either.

Creating a new team or WHFB army that is balanced and fun to play is really difficult, over the years I've seen hundreds of home grown teams and most of them were not very good. I've yet to see a Brett team that I've either liked or felt represented the Brett fluff particularly well. The Brettonian army in based around the knight with peasant support, if you look at the stats then then aside from the Grail knights (who could be stars) the rest of the knights have comparable stats with empire troops. Knights errant have basic human stats whilst knights of the realm and questing knights are human elite. If you look at the peasants then they are actually worse than goblins. That's why i think the Orc roster does a surprisingly good job, just leave out the troll and take 4 goblins.

Let's face it the norse and nurgle teams were a pretty bland affair until 5th edition and the amazons and khemri are still awful. That's why I'm a big fan of the counts "as rules" 21 (24) teams is plenty and I think there can be such a thing as too much variety just look at the MBBL2 all those teams and extra rules put me off ever playing there.

I honestly think we have enough teams, and that the Brett roster doesn't play differently enough from humans to be worth including. If you want the status quo to change then you need to put forward a better argument than "a bunch of people want it". If you came up with a fun roster for it I'm sure you could find plenty of people who'd support many other teams, even silly stuff like Judges and fatties.

The profanity censor should be removed however, as it is unnecessary and shows nothing but mean spirits. That is the thing that really riled me up. If you noticed, I was out of this thread until that happened. I noticed this in my thread about square bases. I will agree to disagree with you, but seriously, get rid of the profanity censor.

It is a little annoying but I think you're blowing it way out of proportion, I found it mildly amusing as this coming up again is kind of tedious but it was a joke rather than a massive insult.

[Darkson]

Also, it seems a common approach to accuse me of repeatedly starting Bret threads. For the past 4 years I'm not sure I've started any about Plasmoid's Poncy Ponces wearing to much armour. But I've replied to lots. Like this one by Arthurinkpen.

(*And I note that, to his credit, it isn't Plasmoid starting thread after thread anymore)

[mepmuff]

I'm not the one named in the profanity filter, but I would fully understand if Plasmoid would feel insulted. Any poster referring to the brets as Plasmoid Poncy Ponces would come across to me as a troll. The fact that an admin is doing this is beyond absurd IMHO.

Darkson (or any mod/admin), please change back the profanity-filter so the titles on these threads again refer to the content, move it to house rules if you feel it doesnt belong in general and please, as an admin, be aware that sarcasm is pretty troll-like behaviour on these topics. There are others trying to have a serious conversation about bretonnians and I do think they should be able to do just that on TalkFantasyFootball.

[Krulfang]

I don't think mod abuse is funny, in any way, shape, or form. Having been a mod on a forum and having been on forums where mod abuse is rampant, I would hate to see anyone feel put out of Blood Bowl because of it.

A joke would have been if someone called them ponces and it stuck. An insult is forcing everybody else to have to say it or change the word they use. I am not blowing it out of proportion. The point of a forum is people can say whatever they want as long as it fits into the rules. Right now, we can't.

All I'm asking for now is a removal of the profanity censor on the nation west of the Empire. It's against the codes of conduct, as it is in the very least insulting plasmoid BY NAME.

Also, the post mepmuff just said is spot on.

[Insane_Prophet]

I'm not the one named in the profanity filter, but I would fully understand if Plasmoid would feel insulted. Any poster referring to the brets as Plasmoid Poncy Ponces would come across to me as a troll. The fact that an admin is doing this is beyond absurd IMHO.

Darkson (or any mod/admin), please change back the profanity-filter so the titles on these threads again refer to the content, move it to house rules if you feel it doesnt belong in general...There are others trying to have a serious conversation about Plasmoid's Poncy Ponces wearing to much armour and I do think they should be able to do just that on TalkFantasyFootball.

Seconded. It was mildly amusing at first, but it actually makes reading posts that much harder and could well be construed as offensive. Personally I think the argument feels a little like beating a dead horse, particularly since the rules aren't going to be changed. There's no way for Plasmoid's Brett team to become official, so it's going to remain a team that individual Leagues may choose to allow or disallow to their own taste, which is fine.

With all that said, it feels against the ethos of TFF to hijack others' attempts to have a serious conversation about the team in question. If the Mod in question dislikes these threads he/she could surely just ignore them as much as possible.

[inkpwn]

+1 to mepmuff, krulfang and insane prophet. These actions have ruined the topic.

[cyagen]

I am amazed to see how the Brets turned into THE taboo subject of TFF.

Yes the background sucks, but this is the case of 99% of all post-1990s WFB background.

I have always been for the inclusion of any interesting team that is balanced and does not require one page of special rule to play it.

So far I find that Plasmoid's roster is interesting, has been playtested and seems balanced.

Would I want to play it? No, but I feel the same way about Amazons and Khemris.

Maybe renaming them the Albion men, medieval men time wrapped in the BBverse could steer the debate away from Bret sucks....

Maybe if we get them out of the way we could try to work on the remaining 3 chaos god teams.

[inkpwn]

was going to post something profound about the poll telling the real story with op posting 1 option for them and 4 for not.....

Well I will apologise for the poll not being the most well rounded one on the forum, and having five votes does seem stupid now, but I didn't sit down and think of a fair and just way to evaluate this, didn't want a free for all I just wanted a answer to why the Bknights were so hated. I threw the thread together in 5 seconds just out of curiosity and didn't expect it to get this out of hand.