The Dwarven Team: Overpowered?

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:04 pm

I've been getting a lot of flak from my fellow coaches over my team. They feel that the dwarves are simply overpowered. They point out the following things:

1) Dwarf rerolls are to cheap. The fact that they are "well trained" is no excuse.
2) The basic Dwarf lineman is to cheap, and have to many skills for the price.
3) 3 of the 4 types of Dwarf players can get both General and Strength skills.
4) Due to the new SPP's in respect to getting new skills, the other teams can't keep up with me and cant get skills fast enough.

They think that the Dwarf team is overpowering and has broken the league. They are thinking of house ruling some modifications to my team. I dont think that this is fair at all.

Anyone have any comments on why the Dwarves are NOT overpowered? Sure, they are slow, but I need more ammo then that if I am to convince the league commissioner to leave the dwarves alone

Blood

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:29 pm

I haven't played many games against dwarves but I think they are not broken bc. they are limited in their tactics.
Maybe the normal dwarf lineman seems impressive with block, tackle, thick skull and a high av, but they can not pass or catch very well, so they have to pull a running game with a team that mainly has MA 4. And their runners, in contrast, do not have dodge or block, so they are easy prey. As I said, they are very limited in their overall game.
Last week I have beaten a dwarf team with my skaven, I just outrun them and never let them get their hands on my players.
But, I cannot say anything about Dwarf teams with a high TR, though.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:37 pm

Yes tell your league that 100's of leagues have used dwarfs and dwarf teams and found no such balance issue. Tell them that just because you are good with a particular team it's unfair to restrict you.

I went through the same thing in my league's early 3rd edition days with the Undead. After they got rid of the undead I went undefeated with Dwarfs! HAR!

Tell your league that the 12 3rd edition teams are balanced and have been proven so for many many years.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:38 pm

Dwarves start out pretty well, but once other teams start skilling up the often get left behind.

A maximum of 4 players with AG3.
No ST4+ (apart from an Ogre)
No AG4+
The slowest team in the game.
The alchemist is nearly useless.

This isn't to say they are a bad team - which is a more common accusation.

Post by **Thadrin** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:46 pm

They HAVE To be kidding....if they can't keep up with you gaining SPPs then they are SERIOUSLY poor players. I have Longbeards on my team that are now onto in the region of 16 games and have yet to gain a single SPP.

Point out to the muppets you play against the following:
1) Dwarfs are slow.
2) No other team in the game has a lower average AG.
3) Dwarf Linemen at 70k a pop are NOT overpriced. Trollslayers are - according to the formula - but that's a balance issue, and really shouldn't be a worry., seeing as I've never heard anyone complain.
4) EVERY player on the Chaos team can get General and strength skills. Are they complaining?
5) Lets have a bitch about EVERY elf player having AG4 and access to Agility skills shall we?

Your opponents are - simply - jealous because they aren't very good. Their problem is probably getting locked into one playing style and not being able to adapt to playing against a skill rich, stat poor team.

(Ok, I'm biased here...but Overpowered? hell no.)

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:06 pm

Go look at the fumbbl race stats over 1500 games, dwarfs have the worst stats.

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:30 pm

I think that my lineup has made them a little jaded. Here is my current setup after 10 games (league max before the championship). Note the additional skills in BOLD.

Position_____MA_ST_AG_AV___________Skills_______________________________SPP

Troll Slayer__5__3___2__8____Thick Skull, Frenzy, Block, Dauntless, Guard_________9
Troll Slayer__5__3___2__8____Thick Skull, Frenzy, Block, Dauntless, SideStep_______9
Blitzer______5__3___3__9_______Block, Thick Skull, Guard____________________12
Blitzer______5__3___3__9_______Block, Thick Skull, Guard____________________12
Runner_____7__3___3__8_______Sure Hands, Thick Skull, Block, +1MA__________21
Runner_____6__3___3__8_______Sure Hands, Thick Skull, Pass_________________13
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard, Mighty Blow______17
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard_________________7
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard_________________7
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard_________________9
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard_________________6
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard_________________9
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, Guard_________________7
Long Beard__4__3___2__9______Block, Thick Skull, Tackle, ______________________0

Record: 7-0-3 TeamRating: 169.2 ReRolls: 5 FanFactor: 9 Apothecary

Point Spread 15 for, 10 against Casualty Spread: 22 for, 10 against Total Winnings: 500,000

As you can see, I have been very lucky with the spread of my SPP's, allowing me to field a full front line with Guard, even if I take a casualty or 2.

Blood

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:31 pm

Give those longbeards tackle to really hear them whine!

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:36 pm

Ooops, they already have Tackle

Let me change it

Blood

There, I fixed it

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:43 pm

I do think dwarves are a good team, but probably not broken. Perhaps their re-rolls are too cheap and should be 50k (though that's something I hold against the amazon team more). The fact they are very slow is their weakness.

They are extremely good early on, but I suspect that the gap is closed as the various teams develop.

Martyn

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:49 pm

10 Guard

I can see why your opponents think they are overpowered.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:52 pm

That's a great roster for 10 games played!

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:22 pm

They think that the Dwarf team is overpowering and has broken the league. They are thinking of house ruling some modifications to my team. I dont think that this is fair at all.

God, not even worth dignifying that with a response. Tell them to learn to play. Get them to have a look at the tournament and league results from all over the world and show you where Dwarves dominate.

Or just start another team and beat them with that. They're obviously not much good

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:26 pm

Hang on... a 7-0-3 Win record is overpowered?

Ian, we must be cheating mate

BullBear · Post by **BullBear** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:19 pm

Narkotic, that was going to be my next avatar!!!!!!!!

I get Taranto