I really hate f***king stalling

[Darkson]

Is stalling fun? No.
Is stalling a good tactic? The majority of the time, yes.

Until the first statement heavily outweighs the second in people's sentiments, it's going to be a common thing, and the only advise can give to you is "learn to play against the stall better", whether that be in popping the ball loose, or hunting his players in the hope of speeding up his score,or any other way.

[mattgslater]

If I have stopped playing the ball, I couldn't care less what the final score is.

If my opponent stops playing the ball, I don't care what the final score is, either. I automatically stop having fun the moment my opponent acknowledges he can't win, unless the math says so too. I'm going to run it up, and my wit will turn to pure acid. I'll mercilessly mock my opponent for being to weak of mind and faint of heart to even try to beat me.

[Asperon Thorn]

Psh.

Didn't you read Darkson?

Hunting players down on the stalling team is bullying.

Asperon Thorn

[Asperon Thorn]

If I have stopped playing the ball, I couldn't care less what the final score is.

If my opponent stops playing the ball, I don't care what the final score is, either. I automatically stop having fun the moment my opponent acknowledges he can't win, unless the math says so too. I'm going to run it up, and my wit will turn to pure acid. I'll mercilessly mock my opponent for being to weak of mind and faint of heart to even try to beat me.

. . and I won't say a word. If I show my opponent that much disrespect. I have already tuned out anything he can say.

Asperon Thorn

[grampyseer]

I've always maintained that I'd rather lose by an edge, than win by a landslide.

I don't typically stall...It's just not very entertaining.


Here's a question. You're the staller, and your opponent (the stallee?) Simply moves his turn marker forward every turn...waits 4 minutes without declaring an action, and passes the dice back to you.

Is that fair play? It's sure not illegal

[Insane_Prophet]

This is a topic that seems to get so many people hot under the collar. Personally I think it just boils down to the same question that causes problems in almost every game played for "fun":

What is your definition of fun?

Some players define fun as the experience of the game and honestly don't care too much about the result. Others find pleasure in the act of competing and winning. For a lot of people there's a middle ground.

Blood Bowl is a competitive game. By its very nature there will be a winner and a loser. Someone who has utterly no interest in winning (at all) is probably no fun to play against. Would you *enjoy* the game if everyone you met conceded?

If you don't enjoy playing the game against someone because of how they play, stop. Don't claim that it makes you better than them (or them better than you), just stop and don't play them again. Find people you enjoy playing with, or if you can't, accept that you're the odd one out. If your opponent isn't *cheating*, (and thus betraying the agreement that they will player under the same rules/conditions as you) this is the only leg you have to stand on.

[Digger Goreman]

This is a topic that seems to get so many people hot under the collar. Personally I think it just boils down to the same question that causes problems in almost every game played for "fun":

What is your definition of fun?

Some players define fun as the experience of the game and honestly don't care too much about the result. Others find pleasure in the act of competing and winning. For a lot of people there's a middle ground.

Blood Bowl is a competitive game. By its very nature there will be a winner and a loser. Someone who has utterly no interest in winning (at all) is probably no fun to play against. Would you *enjoy* the game if everyone you met conceded?

If you don't enjoy playing the game against someone because of how they play, stop. Don't claim that it makes you better than them (or them better than you), just stop and don't play them again. Find people you enjoy playing with, or if you can't, accept that you're the odd one out. If your opponent isn't *cheating*, (and thus betraying the agreement that they will player under the same rules/conditions as you) this is the only leg you have to stand on.

Can't argue with that....

[Wylder]

I very rarely stall. But when it gives me the best chance of winning the game, I will happily do it.

My wife quite likes dwarves, but she wasn't very good at them for quite a long time. She kept trying to score in 3-4 turns and would either mess it up by rushing too much, or she'd score and then would get scored on right back. It wasn't until I taught her to score in 7-8 turns that she started scoring more reliably. Now her drives often incorporate a turn or two where she could score but chooses not to.

The fact is, her dwarf team (for the first time out of ANY of her teams) won our most recent local league. Primarily because of this one specific improvement in her playstyle.

Everyone in our league was really happy for her, since she played well and deserved the wins. None of us would require her to use sub-standard tactics and probably give up her chances of winning the league for some misguided sense of which tactics are "ethical" because we aren't assholes.

She won that league fair and square and we're all looking forward to the next league where we all plan to use every tactic possible to beat each other.

[Skurk78]

If you score when you can then the other team doesn't even have to try and defend, they can just protect their key players and target yours as they know you'll gift them the ball back to equalise/win.

This is exacttly why I usuallly score on plan C or D. I hate walking an important position player into a trap with the possibility of a fast TD. So just in case I put a few linemen deep in the position's half. The position players work great as decoys and I score with linemen. You'd be surprised how mmany people I've played who think that just because linemen don't have any skills they pose no offensive threat.

Seems like I wandered OT... Stop crying about stalling. Get the ball back and score that TD. That's the way you win the game anyway.

[Babs]

Joemanji said way back on page 2:

Conversely, in tournament play many coaches feel (slightly) insulted if their opponent doesn't stall on them. It is like saying "I don't think you are good enough to score against me in 2/3 turns".

You miss the point Joe. In Oz at least, most people stall so you _don't_ have 2 turns. That's the whole point. If they stalled then gave you 2/3 turns - fine (almost good in fact, quite sporting of them). It's the stall that gives you only one turn (and no one turn TD option) or none that's the 'so called clever' stall, as it DENIES the opponent the chance to score.

If they're already up 2-0 and about to go up 3-0 - why?

Is _all_ stalling sporting? How about when up 3-0 against halflings?

[daloonieshaman]

I love stalling for the win, maybe even the tie in an important league game.
Like any other trait of Blood Bowl (Foul Block pass ect) there is a time and a reason to do so

[MeatLoafX]

Joemanji said way back on page 2:

Conversely, in tournament play many coaches feel (slightly) insulted if their opponent doesn't stall on them. It is like saying "I don't think you are good enough to score against me in 2/3 turns".

You miss the point Joe. In Oz at least, most people stall so you _don't_ have 2 turns. That's the whole point. If they stalled then gave you 2/3 turns - fine (almost good in fact, quite sporting of them). It's the stall that gives you only one turn (and no one turn TD option) or none that's the 'so called clever' stall, as it DENIES the opponent the chance to score.

If they're already up 2-0 and about to go up 3-0 - why?

Is _all_ stalling sporting? How about when up 3-0 against halflings?

I'm assuming this is a tournament where they don't award bonus points for TD differential? Or count TDs for a particular reason?

If you count team TDs at all, I don't think some players should just be giving away TDs to make their opponents "feel good" if it can affect the standings. If you don't count it then why do you care if you lose 3-1 versus 3-0? A loss is a loss and giving me a pity TD seems pointless.

I may be misunderstanding things.

I try to find fun in blood bowl, even if I get my ass handed to me in a game. After all, unless you're a blood bowl god, you'll have your fair share of losses - and if I can't enjoy every game, even when I'm hopelessly losing... well, then perhaps I should reconsider why I play. Do I get frustrated sometimes? Sure. It's not overly "fun" to lose, but if you're playing with cool people and trying to enjoy yourself, I find it goes a long way to temper that frustration.

[mattgslater]

And if you are a Blood Bowl god, losses are what you remember, and always come along with great games, great stories or both.

[Babs]

And if you are a Blood Bowl god, losses are what you remember, and always come along with great games, great stories or both.

Not when you get your @$$ handed to you 6-0. Worst loss _ever_ (and at a tournament, to boot). But yeah, I'll remember it all right.

Trust me , not a great story or a great game. Mind you, my opponent played well, took out all four of my key players (Slann catchers) in the first 4 turns of the game, and I made the most of it. He's a nice enough guy and I enjoy playing him - but what if he wasn't and decided to stall? (the answer would be he wouldn't be up 6-0 at the end of the game, but you get my drift).

My point is, you might already be sore about his string of fluky rolling on your injuries and armour, and has you pummelled down to 3 players. Stopping a stall is not an option. Is it _legit_? Sure. Is it _fun_? Not at all.

[Grumbledook]

Joe isn't talking about always stalling, he is talking about stalling out the first half to only give the opponent 1 turn left to score.

If they receive and score then you use up the rest of the half to go 1-1 at half time. Then stall out the second half to win 2-1. The other team has anywhere up to 15 turns to try and get the ball off them or stop them scoring on one of those drives.

If they receive and you score and either stall out the rest of the half, or you had to score quickly and they didn't equalise. Then you get the ball again in the second half and this score will leave you 2-0 up, at this point stalling to prevent them time to score back isn't needed as they need two touchdowns to just get a draw.

If you receive you stall out the first half hopefully going up 1-0 at the half. The second half you either need to stop the other team scoring, force them to score quickly so you get plenty of turns to stall out the rest of the game, or turn them over and score again yourself.

If you manage that last one, then you just go ahead and score (unless you yourself are really low on numbers and there are quite a few turns left, then you can look to waste a couple of turns if low risk). At 2-0 up there is no point in scoring as the other team will need to score twice, the second time after kicking the ball to you.

When you have a 2-0 cushion then stalling loses the appeal compared to looking to get more SPP or tournament scoring points.

A team can't stall on you if your players are nearer your end zone than his players.

If I'm stalling then by all means go ahead and gang foul my players, that is part of stalling defence, I'm happy to trade that for a win.

There will be games where you end up with less players than them and then you just gotta suck it up. Even then you can still prevent a score, I've done it with 6 Dark Elves against a 10 man side. Most of the time though this isn't the case. The only other times I've been stalled on is when I've made positional mistakes and my opponent has got his players and the ball through mine and is closer to my end zone that my own players. I learn from these and my defence improves.

Don't forget that if they are holding the ball and trying to stall that a cage will typically use 5 of his 11 players. You have the whole rest of your team to use against his remaining players.