Illegal procedure poll

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:26 am

Some more discussion here

veron · Post by **veron** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:40 am

I'm running two different leagues and in both we have the same house rule about calling IPs:

When your opponent forgets to move his turn marker, or forgets to take an action with his Wild Animal first, and you call an Illegal Procedure on him, you can:

A) Get a free re-roll for yourself. It must be used on the current half.

OR

B) Throw a rock as described in the Kick-off table. The rock may only be thrown at a standing player. The player may be the ball-carrier. If the hit player was stunned, he may not stand up on the same turn.

All of our coaches have been happy with this change to the rules.

ExeGAMER · Post by **ExeGAMER** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:20 pm

I'm still relatively new to Blood Bowl and I'm all in favour of having Illegal Procedure calls, even though I am the one with so many new concepts to deal with that I'm also the one likely to be on the wrong end of it.

Part of my attitude may be down to running a Snotling team... if we can't go running telling tales to the Ref what chance have we got?

Personally, I don't call it often and neither do my opponents but I still feel it is important to leave it in there as an option. I find that the players keenest to RULE against its use are also the players quickest to exploit the most extreme possible interpretation of every other rule in the book.

If you leave it in, you very quickly learn not to make the mistake. I feel much the same way about enforcing a time limit (where ideally I'd get hold of a chess clock and allow players 30 minutes per half rather than 4 minutes per turn).

Illegal Procedure and Time Limits are effectively the two "human" elements in the game. Games should not be JUST about learning to exploit statistics to maximum effect.

Mistakes under pressure are a significant part of sport and warfare and I feel players are far too quick to remove these important elements from gaming systems.

Leave IP in as written. Whether you call it or not is, and should be, situational (calling IP against a complete beginner would be awful) but the rule does bring an important extra dimension to the game.

---Steven

Aino · Post by **Aino** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:28 pm

Falc wrote:... I don't think I'm that interested in having you in my league...

damn I was looking for some league/ games in and around Brussels ! ...*lol*

Aino

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 5:42 pm

[quote="ExeGAMER"]
If you leave it in, you very quickly learn not to make the mistake. I feel much the same way about enforcing a time limit (where ideally I'd get hold of a chess clock and allow players 30 minutes per half rather than 4 minutes per turn).

[/quote]

Did you notice that if you ever used a chess clock you'd be taking away two minutes per half? If my maths aren't rusty 8 turns per half at 4 minutes per turn make a total of 32 minutes.
And believe me, the difference does matter.

ExeGAMER · Post by **ExeGAMER** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:07 pm

...I'd get hold of a chess clock and allow players 30 minutes per half...

...Did you notice that if you ever used a chess clock you'd be taking away two minutes per half?...

Quite frankly, big deal. As far as I can make out it is standard practice to make tournament games two hours in length, so you'd expect to lose those odd couple of minutes anyway. If it really matters to you, set the clock to 32 minutes per half... or have four 16 minute quarters.

Did you notice that under the rulebook method you would gain nothing from saving time in the early moves of the game? A two minute turn would simply be two minutes lost, not two minutes to use later in the match. Swings and roundabouts.

I suspect that there are a lot of things in Blood Bowl that would be a lot less of a problem than they appear if players were not permitted the luxury of unlimited time in which to examine every last nuance of the situation.

Basically, I just get very suspicious of people who want every single advantage that they can obtain from the rules, yet run so scared of the games two constraints.

---Steven

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:30 pm

It's more than the turnover (or rr loss). remember that in lrb it also resets the igmeoy ref. could be a BIG deal.

I also voted the "warn a few times first then call it". More lenient with newbie players, and less lenient in playoffs or if i know the guy would do it to me. It's all a personal call thing.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 9:12 am

wesleytj wrote: remember that in lrb it also resets the igmeoy ref

Not any more... IIRC this was a 4th ed rule that never made it into LRB.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:42 am

Anyone who hovers over the board and calls it at the first opportunity is a lame excuse for a coach, if thats the only way you can win then good luck to you.

After a few warnings then so be it, no problem.

The rule would be better if it was the responsibilty of the the preceeding coach to announce the end of his turn by moving the opposition turn marker.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:53 am

Here's a diff slant on IP. Last night i'm playing a Skaven team with a Wild Animal.

The Coach makes the mistake of playing him at LOS, and i take full advantage by surrounding him to instigate the 2 die block my choice. methinks. The Wild animal goes prone

However next turn the coach doesn't move his WA first , instead does a few other actions, stands a few up etc ( At this point i am assuning the WA will be staying put and not moving having been overwhelmed when he was standing. But no the coach declares a blitz with him.

of course i say, aha, Wild animal Blah blah Blah, he cant move now, or alternatively if you weren't sure of the rules you can restart your turn.

The coach declares that he will forfeit a re-roll and continue his turn. now in all honesty i didn't want to take a re-roll from him, and would have prefered that the WA stayed prone or he retook the turn, but the choice was taken from me.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:35 pm

McDeth,

My view on this is that you cannot burn a reroll to move the Rat Ogre later on. He either moves first or (if he's on the floor) not at all. There is no middle ground.

Dave

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:53 pm

I agree with DD.
He should have to forfeit the WA's action if he is not moved first. Whether this is how the official rules stand I don't know but thats how it should be in spirit.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:08 pm

That was definately a premeditated and underhanded attempt at circumventing the WA trait and it should not have been tolerated. Would having 8 re-rolls allow you to play a WA anytime you want? WA doesn't state that the player has to go first unless he has a RR. You should definately discourage this type of mentality during gameplay as it can cause lots of personality issues. I think you handled it correctly up until up until the RR thing.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:22 pm

Does that player play pbem? That is the only place i have heard of such a thing and the reasoning is completely different in that case. U cant burn a reroll on such a thing (or i would have started my wildcards team with at least 4 rr's) except in pbem and that is only because your opponent isnt able to watch u step by step do your turn. Bad Player *slaps that guys hand for acting like a 5 year old*.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:50 pm

To be honest i haven't come across the situation before, and not having an official ruling at the time i was forced to make a decision, i dont think the intent was to get around the rules, but rather a misundersatnding of the way Wild animal works. Its been cleared now, so shouldn't happen again

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Illegal procedure poll

How do you deal with Illegal Procedure ?

Re: My POV