Defensive alignments.

[Sneaky Rat]

Move of 7 is fast enough. I am not saying i don't use my gutter runners, but too many is a bad thing early on. I can understand having 3 once you have some money and extra men, but for a starting team, the throwers give more options. I argue that in my style of play where the ball carrier almost never gets hit, the times he does get hit, i want him to be strenght 3 because he can take a one die block better. In addition, having sure hands means that if he does get knocked over, he can pick the ball up again right away. Like i said though, it is all in your style. I like to make my skaven a half passing team so that i can either run of pass, my opponents don't know how to defend against it. We can argue all day about it lol, i see the virtues of a second thrower, and many don't. It is just in how you want to use the team. This kind of versitility is what makes blood bowl so great

[Acerak]

I think most folk feel a second Skaven, Human, or Orc Thrower is a "waste" on a starting team because only one player can use Pass in any given turn, only one can carry the ball, and only one can use Sure Hands to attempt the pickup.

I never have this problem with Amazons, because they don't start with Sure Hands. If someone tries to target my Thrower, I'm forced to use a re-roll if I want to pass, but I don't always need to pass anyway.

I think two Throwers on the Skaven defense is a great thing for a rookie team, though. One Thrower always ends up out of position when the ball finally pops loose! It's a good "alternative" strategy.

-Chet

[Sneaky Rat]

I think two Throwers on the Skaven defense is a great thing for a rookie team, though. One Thrower always ends up out of position when the ball finally pops loose! It's a good "alternative" strategy.

That is exactly it. The skaven end up starting on defense all the time because they score so fast. So you need to have the stronger guys to pick up the ball and then get it to the gutter runner fast if they can. Most of the time the thrower will need to hold the ball for a turn till the GR is in position. And given that the ball will probably be in the middle of a pack, i fancy the chances of a thrower over that of a GR. And also, i prefer the chances of a thrower making a pass out of tackle zones more than a GR trying to dodge all over to get around people. If you know how to use them, 2 throwers can be deadly to your opponents.

[Acerak]

Here's a two-Thrower Skaven lineup you might find useful:

2 Throwers (140K)
1 Gutter Runner (80K)
2 Storm Vermin (180K)
7 Linerats (350K)
3 Re-rolls (180K)
7 Fan Factor (50K)

Alternatives:

* Trade a Linerat for an Apothecary.
* Trade a Storm Vermin and a Re-roll for a Rat Ogre and 2 extra FF.
* Trade a Linerat, a Re-roll, and 2 FF for a Rat Ogre.

-Chet

[Trambi]

For me an apothecary is a must in a Skaven team, with their low armor

[Sneaky Rat]

As my team gets better, i am finding multiple gutter runners less and less important. I usually only play with one now, so i like the lineup Acerak suggested. For me i find storm vermin to be only marginaly better than a linerat, and for a starting team, i prefer to buy two linerats instead of one stormvermin and one fan factor. Rat Ogres are nice, but not my style really. Only useful to tie up 1/3 of the opponents team, and only if the other team tries to hurt him or offset him with assists. Granted that can be huge, but like i said, not my style.

As for an apothcary, i agree it is a must, but with a high fan factor you can usually afford to get one after the first game, so i prefer to have the extra linerat a game early to collect SPP. I have found that most of my rats get KOed or badly hurt, not SI or dead, so that apothcary really isn't that important for that first game. Besides, if a linerat is killed in the first game, you lose only his cost, because he won't have much for SSP in one game anyways. And IF a rat is killed, with an extra i can replace him guaranteed, the apothcary only has a 5/6 chance. To me, it is worth the risk of losing the 50k a linerat is worth to let him gain some SSP a game earlier.

[Acerak]

Hey, Sneaky Rat - How many players do you usually have on your starting team? I suggested 12, but you sugested turning in a Storm Vermin and a point of FF for two Linerats. Do you routinely start with 13 players?

Thanks.

-Chet

[Sneaky Rat]

With the skaven, yes, fairly routinely. I have never yet had a skaven team that got hurt early on. Been playing for about 6 or 7 years now off and on. I have always felt that 13 players is the way to go with skaven because they get beat down so easily. Although i did try 12 once with an extra 5 to my FF and it worked ok, but i think it was because i was playing a human team the first game and bought the 13th man after that first game.

[Marcus]

I agree that 13 players is practically essential for a starting Skaven team. A lot of people will argue in favour of an apoth but an apoth doesn't help you recover from large numbers of knockouts, as reserves will.

As for Storm Vermin I have to say I'm a big fan. I find you need block on the team early on to make the holes to run recievers through. Storm Vermin also have access to the strength list which makes Guard a good first skill to assist in breaking the line or freeing up heavily marked players. The AV8 also allows you to put them in danger a little more often than their softer chums.

[Acerak]

A lot of people will argue in favour of an apoth but an apoth doesn't help you recover from large numbers of knockouts, as reserves will.

If I had a nickel for every time I said this...

-Chet

[Sneaky Rat]

Don't get me wrong, i am not gonna say anything bad about storm vermin, i love em too. I just love having the extra reroll more for my starting team. My first buys are usually:

1.Apothcary
2.Stormvermin
3.Linerat
4.Stormvermin

We still use the cards and 3rd ed rules, so 90k can easily be made in 2 games, sometimes in one. Playing 2k1 rules would probably make me reconsider and take the 2 stormvermin instead of a reroll, two linerats, and 2 FF. Never gonna give up my 2 throwers though! lol

[Longshot]

This is how i started my team and i keep on starting like this:

1 hapo 50k
1 thrower 70k
3 runner 240k
2 Vermin 180k
6 linerats 300k
2 rerolls 120k
4 Pop

I do a lot of pressure on ball carrier with my runnerS, and i score quickly as possible.
The more you score, the less they hit you.
coz they want to have at least one TD.
I started an other team like this on olbbl when i played in(i just get bored...), and everybody has said, 3runner=3dead rats, but they didnt succed in killing them, and i scored a lot like my 'Ratpids' (near 5.4TDs/game for my team)
This is how i play skaven.

_________________
/me escape of this field before you smach my face down

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Longshot on 2002-03-06 11:34 ]</font>

[Trambi]

Finally skaven team can be play in very different way, that is an evidence that skaven are good BB players. I dislike runners (against me ), always where you don't want them with their ag4 and mv9 and dodge .

[Moosifer]

I'll always use 2 throwers on an Ag 3 team, one defensive and one offensive, just for the ball retention skills.

Your defensive thrower ideally has Block, Hail Mary, Dump Off, Big Hand (Skaven), and Strip Ball, in about that order (HMP and DO can be mixed depending on the team). The use of the player is grabbing the ball after it's been chipped loose, and either heffing it down field, or forming a loose cage (plus add in Diving Catch people in quick pass range and you should be OK).

Plus you can sub him for the offensive thrower if he gets injured, or even use him on a wing (he's got Block).

Mind you, I still dream about my human thrower, "The Fridge":

6 4 3 9 Sure Hands, Pass, Block, Dodge, Dump Off.

Now he was fun at the centre of a cage

Plus it's easier to get a thrower to 1 skill than a linerat.

Also, you can set up a thrower forward, and one back with the ball, which gives more players for the opposing coach to cover

[H. Hund]

Code: Select all

----------------------------- 
. . . .|. L . L . L .|. . . . 
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . . 
. L G .|. . . . . . .|. G L . 
. . . .|L . . G . . L|. . . . 
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . . 
. . . .|. . . S . . .|. . . . 
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . . 
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . . 
. . . .|. . . . . . .|. . . . 

This is my Skaven setup.
L = Linerat
G = Gutter Runner
S = Storm Vermin

Dodge is nice for the widezone...