How'd we do?

[Grumbledook]

I don't know how much you have played with the new rules but with having a fair amount of game time using the new rules, I think this is the best system of rules so far. I also believe I am not alone in thinking this. Sure there are still some stuff that needs working on but the changes made have brought some large improvments, the fouling rules for one.

[Sixpack595]

I have played enough to know I like them less than 3rd ed! I also believe I am not alone in thinking this. There are people who agree and disagree with both of us on this. I also think that the BBRC isn't really representative of the players as a whole, and therefore may not point things in the right direction. After playing for years, and developing house rules that kept things from getting out of hand it sucks to see a new ruleset come out that causes more problems than it solved. The fouling issue wasn't much of a problem to us, we just put up a bounty, or killed off any rampant DPs. I see why it was changed, but I think a simple if you cause a Cas you get SPPs is more in the spirit of the game. I still don't agree with the cards being dropped...they were one of the best parts of the game.

Before you get the wrong idea, let me say that I don't hate what has been done, I just think that they are going the wrong direction on a few things. I allways felt that the less changes made the better, and any change that brings up the need for more rules is a bad thing.

I don't know how much you have played with the new rules but with having a fair amount of game time using the new rules, I think this is the best system of rules so far. I also believe I am not alone in thinking this.

[Grumbledook]

The cards sucked big time, sure the first time i used them it was cool and new. However with use and experience a single card can dedide the whole result of a match, which sucks as it totally takes away from coaching skill, which is what should matter. There is enough luck in the dice but that evens out over the course of a match on the whole, the cards however usually didn't. You couldn't plan tactics because of them, rely on a play that a card negates ruins the match for your side, unless the opposing coach is not taking proper advantage of this.

The handicap system and wild animal are some of the problem areas in the current rules, but the fouling the changes to mightyblow etc and the aging winning tables added to what makes a better game, no silly all fouling games and the team ratings are curbed to a reasonable level.

[Sixpack595]

I didn't say they were fair, I meant they were fun. I don't like the way alot of the fun stuff is being eliminated...its Bloodbowl, don't turn it into 40K. Pulling a Peaked on someones shiny new big guy was the best. Having a Chaos team park the ball one square ouside of the endzone and beat on your team for 3 turns only to have bust ball played before they can score the tying point...lovely. Nuffle works in mysterious ways. I never expected a fair game of BB, and was never disappointed. I allways had fun.

Yes the fouling fests were bad, and it sucked to have a special play card ruin your drive, but it all evens out in the end. Eventually you too will pull a card to pull your fat out of the fire. No need for ageing, just keep hammering their stars till they die. I guess I was more concerned with having a good time, not worried about winning or losing...as long as I had more casulties (I had to play in character for my Chaos).


Also... I think the handicap system was allways crap, so instead of changing mighty blow (not at all important) focus on fixing what is really wrong.

The cards sucked big time, sure the first time i used them it was cool and new. However with use and experience a single card can dedide the whole result of a match, which sucks as it totally takes away from coaching skill, which is what should matter.

[Grumbledook]

Just hammering star players till they die doesn't work, just look at the olbbl for teams with tr of 600+

I didn't find 3rd edition more fun, like you said you just played to get casualties, whilst that can be fun from some peoples perspectives, the object of the game is to score more. I am not worried about winning or losing but i don't like playing against someone who isn't concerned with actually bothering to play against me.

3rd was good current rules are just better from a fair few peoples perspectives and while not everyone agrees on all the current rules most prefer them to 3rd edition.

There will always be some who prefer the old rules though, clearly you are one of them.

[Sixpack595]

I should note that I play Orcs, Undead, Lizards, Humans, and High elves too. I just played my Chaos most recently. I realize that some leagues had a problem with high TR teams, but we rarely did...people did their best to minimize it so as to avoid giving up 3 cards and 3 mvps more to their opponant. Another factor was the use of a major and minor league to keep the weaker teams alive. As for the object of the game, read the description of the Chaos team. "They rarely , if ever worry about such minor considerations like picking up the ball and scoring touchdowns-not while there are any players left alive in the opposing team, anyway." Like I said, I try to play in character...my Chaos kills, my Humans score, my HEs don't foul. It adds to the game for me.

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
IMO you (the BBRC) did a good job on the rules review.
I have a few comments, regarding largely the same subjects as everyone else:

*Foul Appearance/Multiblock.
I would have ruled that if either Foul Appearance roll was blown, then the block was wasted.

*Big Guys can use non-Team re rolls.
I like the fact that big guys have at least some access to team rerolls. It will certainly make leader skill more useful. IMO a little help for the big guys is a good thing, considering that the teams that didn't get big guys got 2 extra position players with no drawbacks.

*Cheap ogres for halflings and goblins.
Well, the little guys could certainly use some help - and the treeman/ent on the halfling team was always a middle earth oddity.
However, I will lament the disappearance of the trolls.
Ogres are simply better - and now they are everywhere.
Why not let orc and goblin teams have trolls only?

*No forced fielding of players.
Heck - thats how I read the rulebook.
We even played like this for a long time, until JJ said otherwise. It will make it easier for soft teams to keep their 1-turn-scorer in reserve, and I'm not sure that that's a good thing. Still, we used to play like that, and didn't have a problem with it.

*No pass blocking TTMs.
Hmmmm - discerning between a passing action and a "passing action" seems a little far fetched. Putting TZs on the passer ought to be possible. Still, it is obvious that the pass block description does not take "landing squares" into account, so the ruling probably follows the original intent.

*Foul Appearance works even if the player is not standing.
OOOoooh - I've been saving this one for last. IMO this is a bad idea. With the new hand off rules Foul Appearance has become an even better skill. Most of the time you have too blitz the ugly git in order to have a good catch. Making it necessary to KO him to have a good catch is way excessive. IMO.

Martin

[DaImp]

*No forced fielding of players.
Heck - thats how I read the rulebook.
We even played like this for a long time, until JJ said otherwise. It will make it easier for soft teams to keep their 1-turn-scorer in reserve, and I'm not sure that that's a good thing. Still, we used to play like that, and didn't have a problem with it.

Okay, am I getting confused here or are the rules now stating that you are allowed to field just 3 players even if you have a full team available? In other words I have say 9 players available for this drive, but I have been taking a beating and there are just 2 turns to play in the game so I decide I am going to cut my losses and sacrifice 3 linemen on the LOS and leave the rest of my team in the dugout?

Or have I been smoking my socks again?

[GalakStarscraper]

I realize that some leagues had a problem with high TR teams, but we rarely did...

Therein lies the issue. Your league didn't have problems ... cool. A LOT of other leagues did. JJ wanted the game redone so that any league could have a team exist forever with becoming a monster. Most of the rule changes were towards this goal.

Don't like aging, the handicap table, the lack of the cards ... cool enough ... house rule them back in.

Galak

[Darkson]

DaImp, I'm pretty sure that's what it's saying.

You can just imagine the poor linemen picking straws in the dug-out.

[Sixpack595]

Don't like aging, the handicap table, the lack of the cards ... cool enough ... house rule them back in.

Galak

Thats kind of my point too... I'd rather see them be house rules (new handicap table, ageing, etc...) instead of new rules. We didn't have problems, but others did. I say don't change the official rules unless you really fix the problem. The new rules didn't truely fix the problems you guys ran into, and created some for us.

Very very few people really like the ageing rule as is. I think most will agree that an experience system as many have proposed works better. I just feel that you shouldn't change official rules untill you have a set that works. 40K for all its flaws rarely changes the actual rules, but in the last 2 years there have been what, 4 new rules revisions or new editions?

I think the aims of the new rules are fine, I just think they needed to be implimented differently.

[neoliminal]

After playing for years, and developing house rules that kept things from getting out of hand it sucks to see a new ruleset come out that causes more problems than it solved. The fouling issue wasn't much of a problem to us, we just put up a bounty, or killed off any rampant DPs. I see why it was changed, but I think a simple if you cause a Cas you get SPPs is more in the spirit of the game. I still don't agree with the cards being dropped...they were one of the best parts of the game.

On the plus side, you're playing with the same amount of house rules... eh? Before you had to add bounties and police the DP's, you can certainly do that again if you want by just putting fouling back where it was. Fact is that you had solved the fouling problem with house rules.

[Podfrey]

Marcus,

As you know I play with a WA all the time, and it's never appeared to me as a problem (part of the negatives for the positive it brings). I just imagine it (Rat Ogre) as a gigantic Taz, frothing, whirling, eating, etc though maybe give it Razor Fangs to help add to the carnage!!

Grrrrrr.....!!!

[SgtCaples]

All in all it was good but I am very sorry to see the whole wild animal/ RO issue get tabled for another year. I hate recurring changes but let's face it, something has to be done. I understand the RO was overpowered before but it was sooooo very reactionary to cripple them AND reduce the team to having only one. I would like to have seen some kind of help here.

Oh, and I don't so much think that you need to be "replaced" by me as that I should be added to the current lineup , LOL

Aside from that, I think it all looks good.

[DaImp]

You can just imagine the poor linemen picking straws in the dug-out.

I can't say I agree with the rule then. But it does make for some interesting possibilities.